4 ms·

Do you really believe that this team has the skills and knowledge to find these bugs and construct working exploits for them, but then don't understand the expl

by ctz 10y ago

Do you really believe that this team has the skills and knowledge to find these bugs and construct working exploits for them, but then don't understand the exploit market? Or, that they act against their own best economic interests?

nickik 10y ago
It can be in your long run interest not to sell attacks on companies on the open market. That is shady stuff and not worth it for many people.
jacquesm 10y ago
> but then don't understand the exploit market? Or, that they act against their own best economic interests? Maybe they're just ethical by nature. If I could make lots of money by breaking the law or doing something un-ethical I (and in fact the vast majority of people) still wouldn't do it. Money isn't the only motivating factor. So it is very well possible these exploits would have been worth more on the open market and still the team decided to work on this in a white-hat setting because they are simply good people.
- chrischen 10y ago
  They could sell it to the US Government.
  - jacquesm 10y ago
    That would not be ethical either.
    - notgood 10y ago
      Given the current administration and political climate giving it to the government would be even more unethical. Specially because criminals don't have the funds the NSA does, and they are 100% guaranteed to get away with any wrongdoing
      - jacquesm 10y ago
        I think any kind of release and hoarding exploits without doing what's possible to get the holes closed is un-ethical no matter who the recipient is, there is not much in terms of shades of gray there.
    - chrischen 10y ago
      Yes but it would be legal.
jnwatson 10y ago
These guys are definitely acting against their own best economic interest. Good for them.
derrickdirge 10y ago
Best short term economic interests, maybe. But building a reputation as brilliant whitehat surely confers significant economic benefits as well.
semi-extrinsic 10y ago
> that they act against their own best economic interests? If you consider just your own "best economic interest", a lot of "jobs" like drug dealing, prostitution, fraud etc. are good choices. Morals, not wanting to go to jail, and a concern for your own physical security are non-economic factors that make these bad choices in most people's view. Blackhat hacking falls pretty much in the same category; selling exploits may perhaps be technically legal, but I wouldn't bet my paycheck that you couldn't be put behind bars for aiding and abetting in a criminal offense or similar.

by ctz 10y ago

nickik 10y ago

It can be in your long run interest not to sell attacks on companies on the open market. That is shady stuff and not worth it for many people.

jacquesm 10y ago

> but then don't understand the exploit market? Or, that they act against their own best economic interests? Maybe they're just ethical by nature. If I could make lots of money by breaking the law or doing something un-ethical I (and in fact the vast majority of people) still wouldn't do it. Money isn't the only motivating factor. So it is very well possible these exploits would have been worth more on the open market and still the team decided to work on this in a white-hat setting because they are simply good people.

chrischen 10y ago
They could sell it to the US Government.
- jacquesm 10y ago
  That would not be ethical either.
  - notgood 10y ago
    Given the current administration and political climate giving it to the government would be even more unethical. Specially because criminals don't have the funds the NSA does, and they are 100% guaranteed to get away with any wrongdoing
    - jacquesm 10y ago
      I think any kind of release and hoarding exploits without doing what's possible to get the holes closed is un-ethical no matter who the recipient is, there is not much in terms of shades of gray there.
  - chrischen 10y ago
    Yes but it would be legal.

jnwatson 10y ago

These guys are definitely acting against their own best economic interest. Good for them.

derrickdirge 10y ago

Best short term economic interests, maybe. But building a reputation as brilliant whitehat surely confers significant economic benefits as well.

semi-extrinsic 10y ago

> that they act against their own best economic interests? If you consider just your own "best economic interest", a lot of "jobs" like drug dealing, prostitution, fraud etc. are good choices. Morals, not wanting to go to jail, and a concern for your own physical security are non-economic factors that make these bad choices in most people's view. Blackhat hacking falls pretty much in the same category; selling exploits may perhaps be technically legal, but I wouldn't bet my paycheck that you couldn't be put behind bars for aiding and abetting in a criminal offense or similar.