4 ms·

Whatever is the point in prosecuting a 98 year old? He won't even know what's happening.

GirlsCanCode 10y ago
Why do you condone murder?
tuxxy 10y ago
A man who condoned the murders of 10 million innocent men, women, and children does not deserve mercy. Not in this life, and not in the next. It would be an injustice to the victims to let a single known accomplice in this genocide get away. Age is irrelevant.
- rincebrain 10y ago
  I think parent's point is that at 98, almost everyone has lost the vast majority of the mental faculties which constitute their identity, and if that's true of this individual, then the person they want to bring to justice effectively died years ago, and his body is just a shell of who he was. (I'm not trying to condone or condemn seeking justice against him, here, just trying to explain what the origins of that statement seem to be.)
  - danielam 10y ago
    I wouldn't exaggerate decline in mental faculty and in such a general manner. Besides, what's important is whether this particular man can stand trial. Karkoc is apparently suffering from Alzheimer's, but according to prosecutors of war criminals, mental incapacity and health problems are frequently used by war criminals to evade trial.
- credit_guy 10y ago
  Nit-picking here, but I am not sure this person is accused of genocide. This person is not wanted in relation to the genocide of the Jews in WW2, but for his participation in the retaliation killing of Polish civilians. Today I learned that Germany killed about 5 million Polish, mostly civilians, during WW2 [1], which is mind-boggling. But I don't know if this was ever classified as genocide, as this was not done with the intent of exterminating the Polish population in part of whole (which is the definition of genocide [2]), while the Jews were killed with precisely that intent. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_punishment#By_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_punishment#By_Germa... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_Convention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_Convention
  - jeffwass 10y ago
    "Today I learned that Germany killed about 5 million Polish, mostly civilians, during WW2" I thought I'd clarify one thing : two-thirds of those 5 million murdered Polish civilians were Jews. Felt it was worth mentioning, as your comment differentiates between the Nazi slaughter of Jewish and non-Jewish civilians. The 5 million is a total count. The 3.1 million Polish Jews that were killed represented nearly the entire Polish Jewish population. FYI, I say this as a Jew who lost family to the Nazi's in Poland.
    - credit_guy 10y ago
      Thank you, I didn't know that.
  - 0x07c0 10y ago
    And the polish killed their fare share of German civilians.. It's a reason that statute of limitations is considered a part of a civilized justice system. Sometimes letting the past be the past and move on is a good thing.
    - PhantomGremlin 10y ago
      Does any country have a statute of limitations for murder? I don't think any state in the USA does, nor does the Federal government.
      - 0x07c0 10y ago
        Most European country’s at least had that. Populist sentiments are of course against this.
    - danielam 10y ago
      "And the [P]olish killed their fare [sic] share of German civilians.." You're not serious. What a despicable claim. Also, there is no statute of limitations on murder, much less war crimes.
- ido 10y ago
  The purpose of persecution is public safety, not revenge.
  - danielam 10y ago
    I presume you mean prosecution, though that, too, is not the correct term. In any case, what you write is not really true. Public safety is a concern, yes, but there's more to it. There's maintenance of the social order, there's correction of the criminal, and yes, there's vengeance. Justice is not justice without penalty for the crime. It's important to understand that revenge, as it is traditionally understood, is not motivated by hatred or draconian in nature, but is rather a virtue. What is today sometimes meant by "revenge" is a corruption of the traditional meaning, i.e., something motivated by hatred, something draconian and even vigilatist.
watwut 10y ago
Justice or revenge. Given German behavior on occupied Poland back then, there is nothing surprising about it.
- danielam 10y ago
  Justice entails penalties. Otherwise, crime is rewarded by an excess of laxity. Words like "revenge" or "vengeance" have come to be associated with acts motivated by hatred and draconian punishments, but that is not the traditional meaning.
greydius 10y ago
In my mind, it's not about prosecuting an individual. The point is to demonstrate that civilized society should, without exception, pursue justice againt war criminals.

Why do you condone murder?

tuxxy 10y ago

A man who condoned the murders of 10 million innocent men, women, and children does not deserve mercy. Not in this life, and not in the next. It would be an injustice to the victims to let a single known accomplice in this genocide get away. Age is irrelevant.

rincebrain 10y ago
I think parent's point is that at 98, almost everyone has lost the vast majority of the mental faculties which constitute their identity, and if that's true of this individual, then the person they want to bring to justice effectively died years ago, and his body is just a shell of who he was. (I'm not trying to condone or condemn seeking justice against him, here, just trying to explain what the origins of that statement seem to be.)
- danielam 10y ago
  I wouldn't exaggerate decline in mental faculty and in such a general manner. Besides, what's important is whether this particular man can stand trial. Karkoc is apparently suffering from Alzheimer's, but according to prosecutors of war criminals, mental incapacity and health problems are frequently used by war criminals to evade trial.
credit_guy 10y ago
Nit-picking here, but I am not sure this person is accused of genocide. This person is not wanted in relation to the genocide of the Jews in WW2, but for his participation in the retaliation killing of Polish civilians. Today I learned that Germany killed about 5 million Polish, mostly civilians, during WW2 [1], which is mind-boggling. But I don't know if this was ever classified as genocide, as this was not done with the intent of exterminating the Polish population in part of whole (which is the definition of genocide [2]), while the Jews were killed with precisely that intent. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_punishment#By_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_punishment#By_Germa... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_Convention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_Convention
- jeffwass 10y ago
  "Today I learned that Germany killed about 5 million Polish, mostly civilians, during WW2" I thought I'd clarify one thing : two-thirds of those 5 million murdered Polish civilians were Jews. Felt it was worth mentioning, as your comment differentiates between the Nazi slaughter of Jewish and non-Jewish civilians. The 5 million is a total count. The 3.1 million Polish Jews that were killed represented nearly the entire Polish Jewish population. FYI, I say this as a Jew who lost family to the Nazi's in Poland.
  - credit_guy 10y ago
    Thank you, I didn't know that.
- 0x07c0 10y ago
  And the polish killed their fare share of German civilians.. It's a reason that statute of limitations is considered a part of a civilized justice system. Sometimes letting the past be the past and move on is a good thing.
  - PhantomGremlin 10y ago
    Does any country have a statute of limitations for murder? I don't think any state in the USA does, nor does the Federal government.
    - 0x07c0 10y ago
      Most European country’s at least had that. Populist sentiments are of course against this.
  - danielam 10y ago
    "And the [P]olish killed their fare [sic] share of German civilians.." You're not serious. What a despicable claim. Also, there is no statute of limitations on murder, much less war crimes.
ido 10y ago
The purpose of persecution is public safety, not revenge.
- danielam 10y ago
  I presume you mean prosecution, though that, too, is not the correct term. In any case, what you write is not really true. Public safety is a concern, yes, but there's more to it. There's maintenance of the social order, there's correction of the criminal, and yes, there's vengeance. Justice is not justice without penalty for the crime. It's important to understand that revenge, as it is traditionally understood, is not motivated by hatred or draconian in nature, but is rather a virtue. What is today sometimes meant by "revenge" is a corruption of the traditional meaning, i.e., something motivated by hatred, something draconian and even vigilatist.

watwut 10y ago

Justice or revenge. Given German behavior on occupied Poland back then, there is nothing surprising about it.

danielam 10y ago
Justice entails penalties. Otherwise, crime is rewarded by an excess of laxity. Words like "revenge" or "vengeance" have come to be associated with acts motivated by hatred and draconian punishments, but that is not the traditional meaning.

greydius 10y ago

In my mind, it's not about prosecuting an individual. The point is to demonstrate that civilized society should, without exception, pursue justice againt war criminals.