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If you use Gmail via webmail at https://mail.google.com https://mail.google.com or have a MUA like smtpmail.el in Emacs connect to smtp.gmail.com, Gmail is stil

by sedachv 10y ago

If you use Gmail via webmail at https://mail.google.com https://mail.google.com or have a MUA like smtpmail.el in Emacs connect to smtp.gmail.com, Gmail is still sending your mail.

cwyers 10y ago
This is like saying that unless you own your own post office, you're not sending your mail, the US Postal Service is. Nobody talks like that.
- loup-vaillant 10y ago
  We trust the postal office to act as a reliable dumb pipe. Most email services are far from that: they filter inbound email in a way you have little control of. They spy inbound and outbound mail, and use that information to send you ads. Also, they control your right to send and receive email: if your account is terminated for some reason (they reserve the right to, blah, blah), you cannot move to a new provider, or redirect inbound mail or nothing: they own your email address. Still think your send your own email? Fool.
  - cwyers 10y ago
    I mean, if you want to make the point that e-mail is not secure, you can say "e-mail is not secure." That's a statement that actually makes sense. Your false pedantry isn't convincing anyone to agree with you, it just makes you sound like a crackpot.
    - loup-vaillant 10y ago
      Oh, it's much worse than "email is insecure". It's more like "somebody else controls your email, and they don't have your best interest in mind". What did you think Alphabet was, a charity? Besides, there's more to it than (in)security. For instance, what happens to your various accounts tied to your email if your account gets terminated? You will not be able to redirect your incoming emails, and notifying your friends will be difficult if you relied on the web interface's address book. Also, it's a hole ecosystem: if you use a big webmail, then you allow your provider to spy on everyone you exchange emails with. If you have the means to avoid those, it is your responsibility to do so. Surely you don't like inflicting this kind of spying on your friends, do you? So far, the only reliable way to have proper control over our own email is to control our own domain name, and operate our own mail server. Or at least use small, trustworthy providers. In other words, "send our own email". It's intellectual property/monopoly all over again. One will chose the terms that suits one's side of the debate. I side for privacy, security, and reliability; and argue that webmail providers do not provide any of them. This thread is the first time my "sending one's own email" wording hasn't been an unmitigated success.

by sedachv 10y ago

If you use Gmail via webmail at https://mail.google.com https://mail.google.com or have a MUA like smtpmail.el in Emacs connect to smtp.gmail.com, Gmail is still sending your mail.

cwyers 10y ago

This is like saying that unless you own your own post office, you're not sending your mail, the US Postal Service is. Nobody talks like that.

loup-vaillant 10y ago
We trust the postal office to act as a reliable dumb pipe. Most email services are far from that: they filter inbound email in a way you have little control of. They spy inbound and outbound mail, and use that information to send you ads. Also, they control your right to send and receive email: if your account is terminated for some reason (they reserve the right to, blah, blah), you cannot move to a new provider, or redirect inbound mail or nothing: they own your email address. Still think your send your own email? Fool.
- cwyers 10y ago
  I mean, if you want to make the point that e-mail is not secure, you can say "e-mail is not secure." That's a statement that actually makes sense. Your false pedantry isn't convincing anyone to agree with you, it just makes you sound like a crackpot.
  - loup-vaillant 10y ago
    Oh, it's much worse than "email is insecure". It's more like "somebody else controls your email, and they don't have your best interest in mind". What did you think Alphabet was, a charity? Besides, there's more to it than (in)security. For instance, what happens to your various accounts tied to your email if your account gets terminated? You will not be able to redirect your incoming emails, and notifying your friends will be difficult if you relied on the web interface's address book. Also, it's a hole ecosystem: if you use a big webmail, then you allow your provider to spy on everyone you exchange emails with. If you have the means to avoid those, it is your responsibility to do so. Surely you don't like inflicting this kind of spying on your friends, do you? So far, the only reliable way to have proper control over our own email is to control our own domain name, and operate our own mail server. Or at least use small, trustworthy providers. In other words, "send our own email". It's intellectual property/monopoly all over again. One will chose the terms that suits one's side of the debate. I side for privacy, security, and reliability; and argue that webmail providers do not provide any of them. This thread is the first time my "sending one's own email" wording hasn't been an unmitigated success.