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I have a theory about Western and Japanese nerds. It's not really worked through, so don't get too angry if something is wrong. In the western, and especially

I have a theory about Western and Japanese nerds. It's not really worked through, so don't get too angry if something is wrong. In the western, and especially American, stereotypical school environment of the '90s, the bookish nerds were social outcasts and bullied. There was a strong connection between nerdyness, not fitting in and intelligence. The nerds sat at home and learned programming on their own. Of course it turned out intelligence is very useful. The nerds ended up producing a lot of valuable things, such as much of the internet. In Japan, there wasn't the same too-cool-for-school attitude, and the smart kids did alright socially. Good for them, but it meant they didn't spend their high school and college years programming alone. That eventually hurt the Japanese tech industry, who couldn't just hire self-taught programmers and had to wait for the school system to figure it out or teach their employees to program from scratch. Back in school, there will always be social outcasts of course, but in Japan, the average "nerd" was no more intelligent than people in general, maybe the opposite. I think they were more artistic than their western counterpart. The Japanese nerd-sphere were making amazing amateur manga (dōjinshi) back when art on the western web was little more than scribbles in Ms Paint. Sadly for them, making manga porn doesn't pay like programming. With no way to support themselves and no social status, the Hikikomori hide from the outside world. What makes all this interesting for us is that the west appears to follow in Japan's tracks. Today's high school students are much more diligent and better behaved than 20-30 years ago. Meanwhile nerd culture isn't as intellectual any more. Japan has a group of online right-wingers that love to harass opponents. They are called netto-uyoku and are just like the alt-right, except they appeared a decade earlier, and their racism is directed at Koreans and Chinese. I have no doubt we will see a wave of Hikikomori in the west. They may be different. Maybe they will live alone and survive on delivery food instead of living with their parents.

WalterSear 10y ago
No parents, no hikikomori. America's is more likely to have rampant homelessness, particularly as boomer parents start to hit peak insolvency.
- TorKlingberg 10y ago
  At least in Japan, that hasn't happened. The homeless and semi-homeless are an entirely separate group of mostly 50+ (former) construction workers and day laborers. The hikikomori-likes who cannot live with their parents stay in manga cafes that offer cheap overnight rates for a comfy chair and a PC in a booth. They need some kind of job to pay for it, but not much.
  - WalterSear 10y ago
    There won't be jobs for america's drop outs. There aren't jobs for america's graduates, right now. I'm guessing this will be very slightly motivating for the few that can get their shit together and get haircuts and real jobs. But for most, it's going to be even more disastrous than a lifetime in one's parent's basement.
mikekchar 10y ago
I don't really agree with your assessment, though I really only know about Japanese culture from the last 10 years (when I moved here). There are really 2 main differences between American and Japanese culture with respect to otaku/nerd culture and being bullied. First, Japan high schools are very highly streamed. You pretty much know what you are going to do in life when you apply for entrance to high school. High academic achievers will go to a high level high school, go on to university and then go into white collar jobs. Low academic achievers will go to a low level school and from there either go to a trade school or go out straight to work. So, the "nerd" culture doesn't really exist in high school. You are either studying your ass off in a school that is overloading you with academic work, or you are enjoying sports or some other club activities and barely ever study. Bullying obviously exists, but it's not around academic boundaries. The "smart" kids aren't bullied for being smart. In a low level school, there are thugs that are turning you upside down for your lunch money. In a high level school, there are the rich kids who look down on you. But being smart is pretty much 100% a good thing in a high level school. If you are smart in a low level school, then you are an underachiever and probably cool as hell, so everyone loves you. Otaku culture is something very different in Japan. It's more that you like something that is not cool. So maybe you like comic books too much. Or you are obsessed with games. Or maybe you collect stuffed animals. Or whatever. But basically it's something that your are passionate about but absolutely embarrassed to tell anyone. Nobody admits to being otaku in real life. It's practically a swear word. Hikikomori is completely different than otaku. I have an internet friend who is hikikomori. He just has intense social phobias. It's a mental illness. In Japan, although it is getting better these days, mental illness was not treated. Like, seriously, no treatment. You are looked after by your parents. So if you have schizophrenia, your parents look after you. If you have clinical depression, your parents look after you. This is also true of other kinds of handicaps like Downs syndrome. Parents look after their children if they are not able to look after themselves. A lot of hikikomori could probably lead productive lives if they got some treatment for their mental illness and slowly awareness is improving. But this is hampered by Japanese culture of not understanding mental illness. It's doubly hampered by the feeling of duty that parents have towards their children (which is admirable, but unfortunate in this circumstance). People feel that it is their responsibility to deal with the problem and they won't go to get help. There are people in the west with the same mental illnesses that hikikomori deal with in Japan. The difference (as another poster mentioned) is that western parents will not look after their children in the same manner. There is more of an attitude that somebody else should do something to help them. It's one of the things I hate most about Western culture, but in this instance, it's probably the exactly right thing to do ;-)
taway_1212 10y ago
> racism is directed at Koreans and Chinese. I wanted to nitpick about it not being possible for Japanese people to be racism against Koreans/Chinese (unless they expicitly claim that K/C people are of different and inferior race), but I've learned that the term is so blurred now that even Wikipedia defines it as "discrimination and prejudice towards people based on their race or ethnicity. Today, the use of the term 'racism' does not easily fall under a single definition.". Contrarily, in my home country (Poland) racism still means discrimination based on concept of races and some of them being inferior/superior, and not nationality/ethnicity. Interesting how this term got overloaded in the USA.
- azernik 10y ago
  Japanese prejudice against Koreans and Chinese has historically been couched in racial terms. The Japanese have tended (particular in the Showa period, but to a lesser extent up to the present) consider themselves a separate race from the peoples of mainland Asia.

WalterSear 10y ago

No parents, no hikikomori. America's is more likely to have rampant homelessness, particularly as boomer parents start to hit peak insolvency.

TorKlingberg 10y ago
At least in Japan, that hasn't happened. The homeless and semi-homeless are an entirely separate group of mostly 50+ (former) construction workers and day laborers. The hikikomori-likes who cannot live with their parents stay in manga cafes that offer cheap overnight rates for a comfy chair and a PC in a booth. They need some kind of job to pay for it, but not much.
- WalterSear 10y ago
  There won't be jobs for america's drop outs. There aren't jobs for america's graduates, right now. I'm guessing this will be very slightly motivating for the few that can get their shit together and get haircuts and real jobs. But for most, it's going to be even more disastrous than a lifetime in one's parent's basement.

mikekchar 10y ago

I don't really agree with your assessment, though I really only know about Japanese culture from the last 10 years (when I moved here). There are really 2 main differences between American and Japanese culture with respect to otaku/nerd culture and being bullied. First, Japan high schools are very highly streamed. You pretty much know what you are going to do in life when you apply for entrance to high school. High academic achievers will go to a high level high school, go on to university and then go into white collar jobs. Low academic achievers will go to a low level school and from there either go to a trade school or go out straight to work. So, the "nerd" culture doesn't really exist in high school. You are either studying your ass off in a school that is overloading you with academic work, or you are enjoying sports or some other club activities and barely ever study. Bullying obviously exists, but it's not around academic boundaries. The "smart" kids aren't bullied for being smart. In a low level school, there are thugs that are turning you upside down for your lunch money. In a high level school, there are the rich kids who look down on you. But being smart is pretty much 100% a good thing in a high level school. If you are smart in a low level school, then you are an underachiever and probably cool as hell, so everyone loves you. Otaku culture is something very different in Japan. It's more that you like something that is not cool. So maybe you like comic books too much. Or you are obsessed with games. Or maybe you collect stuffed animals. Or whatever. But basically it's something that your are passionate about but absolutely embarrassed to tell anyone. Nobody admits to being otaku in real life. It's practically a swear word. Hikikomori is completely different than otaku. I have an internet friend who is hikikomori. He just has intense social phobias. It's a mental illness. In Japan, although it is getting better these days, mental illness was not treated. Like, seriously, no treatment. You are looked after by your parents. So if you have schizophrenia, your parents look after you. If you have clinical depression, your parents look after you. This is also true of other kinds of handicaps like Downs syndrome. Parents look after their children if they are not able to look after themselves. A lot of hikikomori could probably lead productive lives if they got some treatment for their mental illness and slowly awareness is improving. But this is hampered by Japanese culture of not understanding mental illness. It's doubly hampered by the feeling of duty that parents have towards their children (which is admirable, but unfortunate in this circumstance). People feel that it is their responsibility to deal with the problem and they won't go to get help. There are people in the west with the same mental illnesses that hikikomori deal with in Japan. The difference (as another poster mentioned) is that western parents will not look after their children in the same manner. There is more of an attitude that somebody else should do something to help them. It's one of the things I hate most about Western culture, but in this instance, it's probably the exactly right thing to do ;-)

taway_1212 10y ago

> racism is directed at Koreans and Chinese. I wanted to nitpick about it not being possible for Japanese people to be racism against Koreans/Chinese (unless they expicitly claim that K/C people are of different and inferior race), but I've learned that the term is so blurred now that even Wikipedia defines it as "discrimination and prejudice towards people based on their race or ethnicity. Today, the use of the term 'racism' does not easily fall under a single definition.". Contrarily, in my home country (Poland) racism still means discrimination based on concept of races and some of them being inferior/superior, and not nationality/ethnicity. Interesting how this term got overloaded in the USA.

azernik 10y ago
Japanese prejudice against Koreans and Chinese has historically been couched in racial terms. The Japanese have tended (particular in the Showa period, but to a lesser extent up to the present) consider themselves a separate race from the peoples of mainland Asia.