8 ms·

> If Palantir refused the contract ICE would walk down the street and offer it to IBM/SAP/Northrop/Raytheon etc. What what we debating here? ICE's conduct or P

by et-al 10y ago

> If Palantir refused the contract ICE would walk down the street and offer it to IBM/SAP/Northrop/Raytheon etc. What what we debating here? ICE's conduct or Palantir being an enabler? Because if we're talking about Palantir, "someone else would have done it" is not a good excuse.

ng12 10y ago
I'm saying worry about ICE's conduct, worrying about Palantir is unproductive. ICE's ability to build a database is not the limiting factor.
- nobodyorother 10y ago
  Worrying about both is appropriate: in both cases, folks are acting like amoral jerks, mentally divorcing their actions from the amount of suffering they directly or indirectly cause. I think the long term question is: how can we make these choices less okay and less profitable?
- et-al 10y ago
  Though it's easier to attract bright and hopefuls to work for Palantir than ICE, right? And it's easier for these employees to excuse their actions with an "I didn't know my efforts would end up being used for that purpose", or "I just wanted to work on interesting problems".
- sedachv 10y ago
  > I'm saying worry about ICE's conduct, worrying about Palantir is unproductive. How so? Exposing and holding people and companies accountable for wrong behavior does not stop anyone from trying to change the government policies that encourage the wrong behavior. The added media exposure probably helps, especially with people that are interested in the person/company but are not aware of the government policies and their impact.
  - ng12 10y ago
    > holding people and companies accountable for wrong behavior That's the question, right? Is this wrong behavior? It's legal, that's for sure. Just because you don't agree with ICE's actions doesn't mean every Palantir employee agrees with you.
    - sedachv 10y ago
      All of your replies in this topic have been logical fallacies: 1. "Someone else would have done it." 2. False dichotomy. And now piling on: 3. Moral relativism. 4. Finish the Job. (#49 in http://utminers.utep.edu/omwilliamson/engl1311/fallacies.htm http://utminers.utep.edu/omwilliamson/engl1311/fallacies.htm)
      - ng12 10y ago
        That's not really constructive. Do you have an actual point to make?
        sedachv 10y ago
        My actual point is you are a troll engaging in Sea lioning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_lioning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_lioning
        ng12 10y ago
        You were complaining about logical fallacies and then discredit my argument as "trolling". Pot, kettle, etc.

by et-al 10y ago

ng12 10y ago

I'm saying worry about ICE's conduct, worrying about Palantir is unproductive. ICE's ability to build a database is not the limiting factor.

nobodyorother 10y ago
Worrying about both is appropriate: in both cases, folks are acting like amoral jerks, mentally divorcing their actions from the amount of suffering they directly or indirectly cause. I think the long term question is: how can we make these choices less okay and less profitable?
et-al 10y ago
Though it's easier to attract bright and hopefuls to work for Palantir than ICE, right? And it's easier for these employees to excuse their actions with an "I didn't know my efforts would end up being used for that purpose", or "I just wanted to work on interesting problems".
sedachv 10y ago
> I'm saying worry about ICE's conduct, worrying about Palantir is unproductive. How so? Exposing and holding people and companies accountable for wrong behavior does not stop anyone from trying to change the government policies that encourage the wrong behavior. The added media exposure probably helps, especially with people that are interested in the person/company but are not aware of the government policies and their impact.
- ng12 10y ago
  > holding people and companies accountable for wrong behavior That's the question, right? Is this wrong behavior? It's legal, that's for sure. Just because you don't agree with ICE's actions doesn't mean every Palantir employee agrees with you.
  - sedachv 10y ago
    All of your replies in this topic have been logical fallacies: 1. "Someone else would have done it." 2. False dichotomy. And now piling on: 3. Moral relativism. 4. Finish the Job. (#49 in http://utminers.utep.edu/omwilliamson/engl1311/fallacies.htm http://utminers.utep.edu/omwilliamson/engl1311/fallacies.htm)
    - ng12 10y ago
      That's not really constructive. Do you have an actual point to make?
      - sedachv 10y ago
        My actual point is you are a troll engaging in Sea lioning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_lioning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_lioning
        ng12 10y ago
        You were complaining about logical fallacies and then discredit my argument as "trolling". Pot, kettle, etc.