4 ms·

It was not blatantly obvious. I voted for Bernie in the primaries, but let's be clear. Clinton won the primaries by millions of votes. If more states had primar

by buerkle 10y ago

It was not blatantly obvious. I voted for Bernie in the primaries, but let's be clear. Clinton won the primaries by millions of votes. If more states had primaries instead of caucuses Clinton would have won even more states.

forgotmysn 10y ago
It was blatantly obvious. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/07/22/on-eve-of-democratic-convention-wikileaks-releases-thousands-of-documents-about-clinton-the-campaign-and-internal-deliberations/?utm_campaign=pubexchange_article&utm_medium https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/07... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/wikileaks-emails-show-dnc-favored-hillary-clinton-over_us_57930be0e4b0e002a3134b05 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/wikileaks-emails-show-dn...
- akhilcacharya 10y ago
  How does that square with the millions more votes Hillary won? It is really bizarre. She's said to be an awful politician, yet won the popular vote in '08, and in '16 during the primaries and general.
  - toomuchtodo 10y ago
    The DNC excluded independent voters in several states during primaries, independent voters they needed to win the general. The voters she won in the primary were not the voters she needed to win. Oops. EDIT: @akhilcacharya: Why expect independents to vote for your candidate if the party doesn't give them a say in the nominee? You want your cake and eating it too, and hence, you lose.
    - akhilcacharya 10y ago
      Why are independent voters entitled to select the nominee of a party they aren't a part of? And after all, progressive candidates like Feingold and Teachout lost by an even bigger margin than Clinton in WI and Faso's district, respectively.
      - maxerickson 10y ago
        In general, because that is the ballot process many states use. Personally I'd prefer the ballot process to be completely based on petitions, with parties having no direct role (they would of course endorse candidates; that endorsement shouldn't change the names that appear on ballots).
    - maxerickson 10y ago
      States decide whether to have open or closed primaries, not parties within the state or national parties.
    - akhilcacharya 10y ago
      >Why expect independents to vote for your candidate if the party doesn't give them a say in the nominee? You want your cake and eating it too, and hence, you lose If they want a say, they are free to register with a party to do so.
      - toomuchtodo 10y ago
        That's how you get 8 years of Trump. As a socialist democrat, I'm more than willing to watch the old guard slowly burn. Everyone dies of old age eventually. Hillary Clinton is 69, female life expectancy is 78. Maybe not waste those 7 years not ruining America further for vanity?
        dragonwriter 10y ago
        > Hillary Clinton is 69, female life expectancy is 78. Better make those 7 years count. 78 - 69 = 9, and anyway that may be life expectancy at birth, but at age 69 female life expectancy in the US is 17.1 years.
- buerkle 10y ago
  That's a different issue. The parent comment was, "It was blatantly obvious the dem on the street wanted Bernie". Clinton won millions more votes from the "dems on the street" than Bernie.
alpha_squared 10y ago
I think this argument is also misleading in a variety of ways. The election cycle proved, to me, that the entire presidential race -- from primaries to general -- is largely a popularity contest and heavily run on name recognition. There's also the concern that the states that didn't even go to Clinton in the general were largely the ones that carried her in the primaries. And then there's the superdelegate system that allowed the media to push the narrative that Clinton was winning by an insurmountable margin before that was actually the case. People who generally stayed out of politics and were largely unenthused about voting turned out to vote for a candidate who engaged with their concerns and ideologies. This was a really complicated election cycle that, (again) to me, highlighted the idea that this is all one big popularity contest and that, ultimately, the media picked the popular kids for us all before we knew it.

by buerkle 10y ago

forgotmysn 10y ago

It was blatantly obvious. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/07/22/on-eve-of-democratic-convention-wikileaks-releases-thousands-of-documents-about-clinton-the-campaign-and-internal-deliberations/?utm_campaign=pubexchange_article&utm_medium https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/07... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/wikileaks-emails-show-dnc-favored-hillary-clinton-over_us_57930be0e4b0e002a3134b05 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/wikileaks-emails-show-dn...

akhilcacharya 10y ago
How does that square with the millions more votes Hillary won? It is really bizarre. She's said to be an awful politician, yet won the popular vote in '08, and in '16 during the primaries and general.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  The DNC excluded independent voters in several states during primaries, independent voters they needed to win the general. The voters she won in the primary were not the voters she needed to win. Oops. EDIT: @akhilcacharya: Why expect independents to vote for your candidate if the party doesn't give them a say in the nominee? You want your cake and eating it too, and hence, you lose.
  - akhilcacharya 10y ago
    Why are independent voters entitled to select the nominee of a party they aren't a part of? And after all, progressive candidates like Feingold and Teachout lost by an even bigger margin than Clinton in WI and Faso's district, respectively.
    - maxerickson 10y ago
      In general, because that is the ballot process many states use. Personally I'd prefer the ballot process to be completely based on petitions, with parties having no direct role (they would of course endorse candidates; that endorsement shouldn't change the names that appear on ballots).
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    States decide whether to have open or closed primaries, not parties within the state or national parties.
  - akhilcacharya 10y ago
    >Why expect independents to vote for your candidate if the party doesn't give them a say in the nominee? You want your cake and eating it too, and hence, you lose If they want a say, they are free to register with a party to do so.
    - toomuchtodo 10y ago
      That's how you get 8 years of Trump. As a socialist democrat, I'm more than willing to watch the old guard slowly burn. Everyone dies of old age eventually. Hillary Clinton is 69, female life expectancy is 78. Maybe not waste those 7 years not ruining America further for vanity?
      - dragonwriter 10y ago
        > Hillary Clinton is 69, female life expectancy is 78. Better make those 7 years count. 78 - 69 = 9, and anyway that may be life expectancy at birth, but at age 69 female life expectancy in the US is 17.1 years.
buerkle 10y ago
That's a different issue. The parent comment was, "It was blatantly obvious the dem on the street wanted Bernie". Clinton won millions more votes from the "dems on the street" than Bernie.

alpha_squared 10y ago

I think this argument is also misleading in a variety of ways. The election cycle proved, to me, that the entire presidential race -- from primaries to general -- is largely a popularity contest and heavily run on name recognition. There's also the concern that the states that didn't even go to Clinton in the general were largely the ones that carried her in the primaries. And then there's the superdelegate system that allowed the media to push the narrative that Clinton was winning by an insurmountable margin before that was actually the case. People who generally stayed out of politics and were largely unenthused about voting turned out to vote for a candidate who engaged with their concerns and ideologies. This was a really complicated election cycle that, (again) to me, highlighted the idea that this is all one big popularity contest and that, ultimately, the media picked the popular kids for us all before we knew it.