3 ms·

Except undocumented immigration(·) is actually not a crime. You don't go to jail when you're caught by ICE. There's no criminal trial. You're sent out of the co

by op00to 10y ago

Except undocumented immigration(·) is actually not a crime. You don't go to jail when you're caught by ICE. There's no criminal trial. You're sent out of the country. So, it's not really logical to apply the analogy of criminal database use. (·) Edit: Unlawful entry (border hopping) is a crime, punishable by $250 in civil penalties, but no jail time. Essentially a jaywalking ticket. Unlawful presence is not a crime.

muninn_ 10y ago
Well in order to be present they had to enter unlawfully. So pretty clear that it's illegal.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > Well in order to be present they had to enter unlawfully Wrong, you can be present unlawfully after completely lawful entry. > So pretty clear that it's illegal. Unlawful presence is obviously illegal, but it is not criminal. The two words do not mean the same thing.
  - poikniok 10y ago
    But you can't be present lawfully after unlawful entry, that is the point.
    - dragonwriter 10y ago
      No, the claim was "in order to be present they had to enter unlawfully"; that claim is what is under discussion and it is factually untrue. What you present is the converse of the claim under discussion. And, for that matter, is also false. A lawful permanent resident alien who enters (say, after a vacation abroad) other than at a designated border crossing is not unlawfully present, but has committed the offense of illegal entry.
dragonwriter 10y ago
> (·) Edit: Unlawful entry (border hopping) is a crime, punishable by $250 in civil penalties. No, it's a crime punishable by imprisonment for up to 6 months and/or fine of up to $5,000 (as a class B misdemeanor) for a first offense and 2 years imprisonment and/or fine of up to $500,000 (as a felony) for a subsequent offense. It is also a civil offense with civil penalties of $50-$250 the first time a civil penalty is imposed, and double that subsequently. See 8 USC § 1325(a) for the crime, associated imprisonment, and reference to fines under title 18, and § 1325(b) for the civil offense; 18 USC § 3559 for classification of crimes based on maximum imprisonment, and § 3571 for fines based on classification of crimes.

by op00to 10y ago

muninn_ 10y ago

Well in order to be present they had to enter unlawfully. So pretty clear that it's illegal.

dragonwriter 10y ago
> Well in order to be present they had to enter unlawfully Wrong, you can be present unlawfully after completely lawful entry. > So pretty clear that it's illegal. Unlawful presence is obviously illegal, but it is not criminal. The two words do not mean the same thing.
- poikniok 10y ago
  But you can't be present lawfully after unlawful entry, that is the point.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    No, the claim was "in order to be present they had to enter unlawfully"; that claim is what is under discussion and it is factually untrue. What you present is the converse of the claim under discussion. And, for that matter, is also false. A lawful permanent resident alien who enters (say, after a vacation abroad) other than at a designated border crossing is not unlawfully present, but has committed the offense of illegal entry.

dragonwriter 10y ago

> (·) Edit: Unlawful entry (border hopping) is a crime, punishable by $250 in civil penalties. No, it's a crime punishable by imprisonment for up to 6 months and/or fine of up to $5,000 (as a class B misdemeanor) for a first offense and 2 years imprisonment and/or fine of up to $500,000 (as a felony) for a subsequent offense. It is also a civil offense with civil penalties of $50-$250 the first time a civil penalty is imposed, and double that subsequently. See 8 USC § 1325(a) for the crime, associated imprisonment, and reference to fines under title 18, and § 1325(b) for the civil offense; 18 USC § 3559 for classification of crimes based on maximum imprisonment, and § 3571 for fines based on classification of crimes.