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> I think Peter Thiel is a monster Why, pray tell, is he a monster? It can't be his libertarian philosophy that supports individual self-determination. It can'

by rrggrr 10y ago

> I think Peter Thiel is a monster Why, pray tell, is he a monster? It can't be his libertarian philosophy that supports individual self-determination. It can't be that's he's a proudly gay, christian role model. I hope its not Palantir, which technology is most often applied in analyzing complex financial crimes and criminal networks. Its tragically ironic that Thiel viewed more for fears about what Palantir might be used for, than for what he's actually accomplished, what he seems to stand for, and how Palantir's software is actually used. Its kafkaesque.

bsder 10y ago
> It can't be his libertarian philosophy that supports individual self-determination. Why not? Complete self-determination is essentially "Fuck off" to everybody else at best and wholesale exploitation at worst.
- muninn_ 10y ago
  No it isn't. This is complete hyperbole.
  - GauntletWizard 10y ago
    This is how modern society works (not that I think it was ever not the case). Many people have 'strong arguments' that 'fair' is defined by things that benefit themselves. Another large portion pays lip service to this by supporting "progressive" causes, while acting in precisely the ways they rail against. Libretarians are as guilty as progressives. While the stereotype of zero regulation is untrue, most would argue only for regulations that benefit them, and believe that regulations that detriment them are the one that are unfair. (As a defense of myself and my position - I do the same, but I also acknowledge that, and consider the fact that most people are arguing in their own self interest an important part of how we achieve 'fair') This is a sardonic and mean-spirited view, but it is a necessary devils advocate - Too much is done with 'hope', not strategy.
- rrggrr 10y ago
  Not at all true. Self-determination/Libertarianism is not a hermit's existence or a rejection of society as you characterize it. Its society's reliance on individuals to allocate resources as opposed to government. By way of example only... "We" walk by the homeless in DC thinking someone or government should do something about it; but in practice its individuals and groups of individuals having the greatest positive impact in that community. Government provides an excuse for doing nothing.
  - arrosenberg 10y ago
    Government that is properly resourced can have an impact at a far superior scale to any individual. Having individuals allocate resources generally winds up with the individual and his friends having most of the resources (Putin, Saddam, the Emirs, the Saudi Royal family, etc.). The government, and only the government, will write a check (or legislate and require others) to build low-cost housing, provide food for poor children, or provide healthcare so that we don't have lepers dying in the streets. That's not a society, and individuals aren't going to do anywhere near enough - they had their opportunity in 1895, and they acted selfishly, which is how we eventually got to 8 hour work days, medicare and social security.
dnautics 10y ago
I think it's interesting that people link Palantir to Peter Thiel's "evilness" so easily because he's a libertarian. When it seems Thiel has very little involvement with Palantir outside of its intial founding (and owning a chunk of it) - and the founder of Palantir is an avowed socialist. The structure of the company explicitly revolves around "doing social good". As they say, the road to hell...
- Zigurd 10y ago
  Palantir figures prominently in his book Zero to One, and is used as an example of his entrepreneurial approaches. It's also a tossup whether Thiel is more execrable for The Diversity Myth or Palantir is for being a key enabler of a surveillance state. They're bad in different ways.
  - vanattab 10y ago
    I have seen multiple times in this thread references to terrible statements Thiel made in "The Diversity Myth" but know one has said what he actually said. Does anyone know specifically what he said that is so objectionable?
    - Zigurd 10y ago
      While Zero to One is well written and often edifying, The Diversity Myth contains clinkers like "But since a multicultural rape charge may indicate nothing more than belated regret, a woman might ‘realize’ that she had been ‘raped’ the next day or even many days later. Under these circumstances, it is unclear who should be held responsible. If the alcohol made both of them do it, then why should the woman’s consent be obviated any more than the man’s? Why is all blame placed on the man?" That's pretty awful, even compared to the notable lack of diversity and bro culture in some tech companies.
      - dnautics 10y ago
        yet it happens. https://kcjohnson.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/findlay-complaint.pdf https://kcjohnson.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/findlay-compla...

by rrggrr 10y ago

bsder 10y ago

> It can't be his libertarian philosophy that supports individual self-determination. Why not? Complete self-determination is essentially "Fuck off" to everybody else at best and wholesale exploitation at worst.

muninn_ 10y ago
No it isn't. This is complete hyperbole.
- GauntletWizard 10y ago
  This is how modern society works (not that I think it was ever not the case). Many people have 'strong arguments' that 'fair' is defined by things that benefit themselves. Another large portion pays lip service to this by supporting "progressive" causes, while acting in precisely the ways they rail against. Libretarians are as guilty as progressives. While the stereotype of zero regulation is untrue, most would argue only for regulations that benefit them, and believe that regulations that detriment them are the one that are unfair. (As a defense of myself and my position - I do the same, but I also acknowledge that, and consider the fact that most people are arguing in their own self interest an important part of how we achieve 'fair') This is a sardonic and mean-spirited view, but it is a necessary devils advocate - Too much is done with 'hope', not strategy.
rrggrr 10y ago
Not at all true. Self-determination/Libertarianism is not a hermit's existence or a rejection of society as you characterize it. Its society's reliance on individuals to allocate resources as opposed to government. By way of example only... "We" walk by the homeless in DC thinking someone or government should do something about it; but in practice its individuals and groups of individuals having the greatest positive impact in that community. Government provides an excuse for doing nothing.
- arrosenberg 10y ago
  Government that is properly resourced can have an impact at a far superior scale to any individual. Having individuals allocate resources generally winds up with the individual and his friends having most of the resources (Putin, Saddam, the Emirs, the Saudi Royal family, etc.). The government, and only the government, will write a check (or legislate and require others) to build low-cost housing, provide food for poor children, or provide healthcare so that we don't have lepers dying in the streets. That's not a society, and individuals aren't going to do anywhere near enough - they had their opportunity in 1895, and they acted selfishly, which is how we eventually got to 8 hour work days, medicare and social security.

dnautics 10y ago

I think it's interesting that people link Palantir to Peter Thiel's "evilness" so easily because he's a libertarian. When it seems Thiel has very little involvement with Palantir outside of its intial founding (and owning a chunk of it) - and the founder of Palantir is an avowed socialist. The structure of the company explicitly revolves around "doing social good". As they say, the road to hell...

Zigurd 10y ago
Palantir figures prominently in his book Zero to One, and is used as an example of his entrepreneurial approaches. It's also a tossup whether Thiel is more execrable for The Diversity Myth or Palantir is for being a key enabler of a surveillance state. They're bad in different ways.
- vanattab 10y ago
  I have seen multiple times in this thread references to terrible statements Thiel made in "The Diversity Myth" but know one has said what he actually said. Does anyone know specifically what he said that is so objectionable?
  - Zigurd 10y ago
    While Zero to One is well written and often edifying, The Diversity Myth contains clinkers like "But since a multicultural rape charge may indicate nothing more than belated regret, a woman might ‘realize’ that she had been ‘raped’ the next day or even many days later. Under these circumstances, it is unclear who should be held responsible. If the alcohol made both of them do it, then why should the woman’s consent be obviated any more than the man’s? Why is all blame placed on the man?" That's pretty awful, even compared to the notable lack of diversity and bro culture in some tech companies.
    - dnautics 10y ago
      yet it happens. https://kcjohnson.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/findlay-complaint.pdf https://kcjohnson.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/findlay-compla...