8 ms·

I left the Bay Area in 2011 because I was tired of the endless suburban hellscape, the high cost of housing, and the poor cultural offerings (yeah SFO is great

I left the Bay Area in 2011 because I was tired of the endless suburban hellscape, the high cost of housing, and the poor cultural offerings (yeah SFO is great but that's a long way off). I was worried it'd be tough to move jobs or careers and that getting new jobs would be harder. It hasn't been. I've been steadily moving up and into new positions at new companies every 2 years just like I was in the Bay Area. My salary is 2.7x higher than it was when I left the Bay Area, and I now have a 5,000 sqft home in a great city that I paid about 1/10th as much for as I would have in the Bay Area.

lj3 10y ago
Do you have any tips for that? I've found it harder and harder to get the attention of distributed companies, to the point where I'm fairly sure I'll be relocating to an A or B tier city in the near future.
- zeamaize 10y ago
  I don't work for a distributed company. I'm in R&D these days and head up the main science section of my company. I used my network to find jobs, applied for every opportunity and stayed on the ball. Earlier in my career I'd send 150+ applications. The last move I only looked at three positions and got offers from all three.
iandanforth 10y ago
Please tell us more! What city did you end up in?
- zeamaize 10y ago
  I've lived in Miami, Chicago, London, DC, Boston (briefly), and Houston. I'm now somewhere else entirely, and while I don't want to say, I'll just say you'd find it surprising, because I certainly did. We like it, though, and there is a strong science-based economy with big growth in cloud and data, low crime, a highly educated population, and an amazing metro area.
  - brutus1213 10y ago
    Heh .. and I thought I was the only one. I'm 38 (a research scientist) and lived in so many different cities! Because of the PhD and post-doc, the house purchase was delayed. We had a baby recently and I really feel like I need to give her stability. Where we are, house prices have doubled since 2008. We are also trying to think out of the box in terms of where to live. Cheers!
FT_intern 10y ago
> My salary is 2.7x higher The original salary must have been low, no hate. Different strokes for different folks. If you're working at a company that already pays well and you're not in the Bay Area, then your options for switching are either exciting but very risky startups (< $1 billion) or small satellite offices of big corps that have limited team options and little political influence (bad for advancement in senior positions). These would typically be lateral movements at best.
- zeamaize 10y ago
  > The original salary must have been low, no hate. My new salary is just much higher, I've had several major steps up. I've found salaries in major metro areas to be pretty much the same as a competitive offer in the Bay Area. > Different strokes for different folks. If you're working at a company that already pays well and you're not in the Bay Area, then your options for switching are either exciting but very risky startups (< $1 billion) or small satellite offices of big corps that have limited team options and little political influence (bad for advancement in senior positions). These would typically be lateral movements at best. The Bay Area isn't the only place with a tech sector, and there are plenty of companies whose main offices aren't in the Bay Area. Washington DC, Chicago, Austin, Denver, all have tremendous tech industries. I've even had job offers at great places that are further out there. My "one that got away" was a job offer in Portland I still think about. It was a great opportunity and a fantastic city, but I ultimately went elsewhere primarily based on the desire to bring some of my projects with me.
  - hapless 10y ago
    DC, Chicago, Austin, and Denver absolutely have booming tech industries. And rising costs of living to match. It should not surprise anyone that wages in other top-tier cities match the Bay Area.
    - zeamaize 10y ago
      I'm now living in a much smaller city, and the salaries here are even higher. Good tech companies know they have to make nationally competitive offers.
jrowley 10y ago
> tired of the ... poor cultural offerings Can you expand on this? Where are you located now that is richer culturally?
- zeamaize 10y ago
  Just about everywhere else I've lived is culturally richer, DC, Chicago, Miami, London, Houston, all had better cultural and art scenes. I'm big in theater, ballet, and art. San Francisco is way too expensive for artists to live in anymore and the art scene there is very limited, inorganic, and a bit stale. Further the distance to San Francisco means it's a chore (and a drive) to get there from the South Bay where all the jobs are. Now I can take public transit to cultural institutions, and walk to a lot too. We have organic arts districts with real artists in residency, regular gallery showings and art walks, and some amazing local musicians. You might get that in Oakland these days, but even Oakland is getting prohibitively expensive.
  - stevenwoo 10y ago
    I lived in Houston about 30 years ago, and you had to either love driving in bumper to bumper traffic or live inside the loop to have easy access to the arts for people with normal working hours. Walking to anything would make me want to take a shower by the time I got to my destination.
  - technofiend 10y ago
    As a denizen of Houston and a very interested party in salary discussions I'm glad to see you mention us. Most people don't think of Houston beyond "Houston, we have a problem" and stereotypes of pickup trucks with gun racks in the window. However Houston is now more ethnically diverse than NYC [1], has a thriving arts scene [2] and as Wikipedia puts it "... is one of only five cities in the United States with permanent professional resident companies in all of the major performing arts disciplines: opera (Houston Grand Opera), ballet (Houston Ballet), music (Houston Symphony Orchestra), and theatre (Alley Theatre)." Are there downsides to living here? Undeniably. The biggest being sprawl and traffic. However next to Austin's city council actively fighting growth and traffic management investment we're in better shape despite an unfortunate anti-rail mentality. [1] https://kinder.rice.edu/uploadedFiles/Urban_Research_Center/Media/Houston%20Region%20Grows%20More%20Ethnically%20Diverse%202-13.pdf https://kinder.rice.edu/uploadedFiles/Urban_Research_Center/... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Houston#Arts_and_theatre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Houston#Arts_and_th...
bogomipz 10y ago
Can I ask where you moved to?
debt 10y ago
"endless suburban hellscape" hilariously accurate

lj3 10y ago

Do you have any tips for that? I've found it harder and harder to get the attention of distributed companies, to the point where I'm fairly sure I'll be relocating to an A or B tier city in the near future.

zeamaize 10y ago
I don't work for a distributed company. I'm in R&D these days and head up the main science section of my company. I used my network to find jobs, applied for every opportunity and stayed on the ball. Earlier in my career I'd send 150+ applications. The last move I only looked at three positions and got offers from all three.

iandanforth 10y ago

Please tell us more! What city did you end up in?

zeamaize 10y ago
I've lived in Miami, Chicago, London, DC, Boston (briefly), and Houston. I'm now somewhere else entirely, and while I don't want to say, I'll just say you'd find it surprising, because I certainly did. We like it, though, and there is a strong science-based economy with big growth in cloud and data, low crime, a highly educated population, and an amazing metro area.
- brutus1213 10y ago
  Heh .. and I thought I was the only one. I'm 38 (a research scientist) and lived in so many different cities! Because of the PhD and post-doc, the house purchase was delayed. We had a baby recently and I really feel like I need to give her stability. Where we are, house prices have doubled since 2008. We are also trying to think out of the box in terms of where to live. Cheers!

FT_intern 10y ago

> My salary is 2.7x higher The original salary must have been low, no hate. Different strokes for different folks. If you're working at a company that already pays well and you're not in the Bay Area, then your options for switching are either exciting but very risky startups (< $1 billion) or small satellite offices of big corps that have limited team options and little political influence (bad for advancement in senior positions). These would typically be lateral movements at best.

zeamaize 10y ago
> The original salary must have been low, no hate. My new salary is just much higher, I've had several major steps up. I've found salaries in major metro areas to be pretty much the same as a competitive offer in the Bay Area. > Different strokes for different folks. If you're working at a company that already pays well and you're not in the Bay Area, then your options for switching are either exciting but very risky startups (< $1 billion) or small satellite offices of big corps that have limited team options and little political influence (bad for advancement in senior positions). These would typically be lateral movements at best. The Bay Area isn't the only place with a tech sector, and there are plenty of companies whose main offices aren't in the Bay Area. Washington DC, Chicago, Austin, Denver, all have tremendous tech industries. I've even had job offers at great places that are further out there. My "one that got away" was a job offer in Portland I still think about. It was a great opportunity and a fantastic city, but I ultimately went elsewhere primarily based on the desire to bring some of my projects with me.
- hapless 10y ago
  DC, Chicago, Austin, and Denver absolutely have booming tech industries. And rising costs of living to match. It should not surprise anyone that wages in other top-tier cities match the Bay Area.
  - zeamaize 10y ago
    I'm now living in a much smaller city, and the salaries here are even higher. Good tech companies know they have to make nationally competitive offers.

jrowley 10y ago

> tired of the ... poor cultural offerings Can you expand on this? Where are you located now that is richer culturally?

zeamaize 10y ago
Just about everywhere else I've lived is culturally richer, DC, Chicago, Miami, London, Houston, all had better cultural and art scenes. I'm big in theater, ballet, and art. San Francisco is way too expensive for artists to live in anymore and the art scene there is very limited, inorganic, and a bit stale. Further the distance to San Francisco means it's a chore (and a drive) to get there from the South Bay where all the jobs are. Now I can take public transit to cultural institutions, and walk to a lot too. We have organic arts districts with real artists in residency, regular gallery showings and art walks, and some amazing local musicians. You might get that in Oakland these days, but even Oakland is getting prohibitively expensive.
- stevenwoo 10y ago
  I lived in Houston about 30 years ago, and you had to either love driving in bumper to bumper traffic or live inside the loop to have easy access to the arts for people with normal working hours. Walking to anything would make me want to take a shower by the time I got to my destination.
- technofiend 10y ago
  As a denizen of Houston and a very interested party in salary discussions I'm glad to see you mention us. Most people don't think of Houston beyond "Houston, we have a problem" and stereotypes of pickup trucks with gun racks in the window. However Houston is now more ethnically diverse than NYC [1], has a thriving arts scene [2] and as Wikipedia puts it "... is one of only five cities in the United States with permanent professional resident companies in all of the major performing arts disciplines: opera (Houston Grand Opera), ballet (Houston Ballet), music (Houston Symphony Orchestra), and theatre (Alley Theatre)." Are there downsides to living here? Undeniably. The biggest being sprawl and traffic. However next to Austin's city council actively fighting growth and traffic management investment we're in better shape despite an unfortunate anti-rail mentality. [1] https://kinder.rice.edu/uploadedFiles/Urban_Research_Center/Media/Houston%20Region%20Grows%20More%20Ethnically%20Diverse%202-13.pdf https://kinder.rice.edu/uploadedFiles/Urban_Research_Center/... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Houston#Arts_and_theatre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Houston#Arts_and_th...

bogomipz 10y ago

Can I ask where you moved to?

debt 10y ago

"endless suburban hellscape" hilariously accurate