5 ms·

The headline does not suggest or imply that lack of a comma in a document the company itself drafted is the basis for the overtime liability--only that the comp

by sk5t 10y ago

The headline does not suggest or imply that lack of a comma in a document the company itself drafted is the basis for the overtime liability--only that the company may suffer the consequences.

gnicholas 10y ago
When something is said to be "lacking", it implies that something should be there but isn't. The headline only introduces one actor — the company. In this context, there is only one party to put fault on for the "lack" of the comma, which is the company. When you read the article, you see that the comma is not from a company document, but from a statute. So the "lack" is due to legislative drafting. But reading just the headline, how could one have imagined that the "lack" was due to an unnamed actor that drafted an unnamed statute? While the implication I described is not the clearest implication, there is no way a reader could see this headline and have any clue that what really happened was: Legislators drafted ambiguous statute and company's interpretation lost out But that would make for a lousy headline, I suppose.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- ghshephard 10y ago
  I initially guessed it was a tax law that got them. Never occurred to me that it might be something that the company did - typically they have lawyers who comb extra well for that kind of detail, even in a $1200/month lease. Lord knows what they do for multi-million contracts...
- scott_s 10y ago
  I read the headline and figured it was ambiguity in the law. I think the headline is fine.
  - albedoa 10y ago
    Impressive! The headline doesn't mention a law. Anyway, do you think the headline could be better?
    - scott_s 10y ago
      "Law's Lack of ..." would maybe help, but I don't think it's necessary. I figured it was a law, or a regulation, because where else are the exact semantics of the written word so important that it could cost a company money?
      - albedoa 10y ago
        A contract.
        scott_s 10y ago
        Fair point. But I still think it's a fine headline. Any ambiguity is quickly resolved in the article - headlines can't convey everything, and I think it says the most important part.
- yohui 10y ago
  That's a fair point, but I think calling the headline "misleading" goes too far. My own reaction to reading the title was not to assume the subject was to blame for its own troubles: that's certainly a possibility, but it could just as well be some "lack" in the environment, as turned out to be the case. Perhaps it says more about the mindset of the reader than the headline in itself. As the article illustrates, our languages are full of ambiguities. Human communication is limited in bandwidth and which features are preserved when we use lossy compression to shrink an article to a summary or title depends on priorities. For example, your suggestion: > Legislators drafted ambiguous statute and company's interpretation lost out emphasizes who is at fault, business or government, but loses what the dispute was (overtime pay), where the case was located (Maine), why there was ambiguity (the Oxford comma or lack thereof), and how much was at stake (millions of dollars). There's also something to be said about making it sound catchy (like the alliteration with "Maine" and "millions"). You could put all that back in, of course, but at the cost of more bandwidth consumption. And since everyone has different priorities (for example, someone else might want to know that the company was in the dairy business), there's always more to add until we reach the point where we're just reading the entire article. So yeah, that's a good insight, but the top HN comment shouldn't be that the article's headline could be interpreted differently.
  - gnicholas 10y ago
    I am also surprised my comment is at the top of the page — I think this is partly due to the subthread on computational lawyering. Good points, and thanks for your thoughtfulness. I agree that "misleading" could be a tad too emphatic, and I'd be open to other descriptors that might be more accurate.
- esfandia 10y ago
  I think you meant: Legislators drafted ambiguous statute, and company's interpretation lost out. ;)
- nommm-nommm 10y ago
  >When something is said to be "lacking", it implies that something should be there but isn't. I don't consider "lacking" to have that implication. Especially not in the context of the Oxford comma, as lack of an Oxford comma is well known to be a source of ambiguity(1). (1) https://theliteraryman.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/comma-comma.jpg https://theliteraryman.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/comma-com...

by sk5t 10y ago

The headline does not suggest or imply that lack of a comma in a document the company itself drafted is the basis for the overtime liability--only that the company may suffer the consequences.

gnicholas 10y ago

When something is said to be "lacking", it implies that something should be there but isn't. The headline only introduces one actor — the company. In this context, there is only one party to put fault on for the "lack" of the comma, which is the company. When you read the article, you see that the comma is not from a company document, but from a statute. So the "lack" is due to legislative drafting. But reading just the headline, how could one have imagined that the "lack" was due to an unnamed actor that drafted an unnamed statute? While the implication I described is not the clearest implication, there is no way a reader could see this headline and have any clue that what really happened was: Legislators drafted ambiguous statute and company's interpretation lost out But that would make for a lousy headline, I suppose.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
ghshephard 10y ago
I initially guessed it was a tax law that got them. Never occurred to me that it might be something that the company did - typically they have lawyers who comb extra well for that kind of detail, even in a $1200/month lease. Lord knows what they do for multi-million contracts...
scott_s 10y ago
I read the headline and figured it was ambiguity in the law. I think the headline is fine.
- albedoa 10y ago
  Impressive! The headline doesn't mention a law. Anyway, do you think the headline could be better?
  - scott_s 10y ago
    "Law's Lack of ..." would maybe help, but I don't think it's necessary. I figured it was a law, or a regulation, because where else are the exact semantics of the written word so important that it could cost a company money?
    - albedoa 10y ago
      A contract.
      - scott_s 10y ago
        Fair point. But I still think it's a fine headline. Any ambiguity is quickly resolved in the article - headlines can't convey everything, and I think it says the most important part.
yohui 10y ago
That's a fair point, but I think calling the headline "misleading" goes too far. My own reaction to reading the title was not to assume the subject was to blame for its own troubles: that's certainly a possibility, but it could just as well be some "lack" in the environment, as turned out to be the case. Perhaps it says more about the mindset of the reader than the headline in itself. As the article illustrates, our languages are full of ambiguities. Human communication is limited in bandwidth and which features are preserved when we use lossy compression to shrink an article to a summary or title depends on priorities. For example, your suggestion: > Legislators drafted ambiguous statute and company's interpretation lost out emphasizes who is at fault, business or government, but loses what the dispute was (overtime pay), where the case was located (Maine), why there was ambiguity (the Oxford comma or lack thereof), and how much was at stake (millions of dollars). There's also something to be said about making it sound catchy (like the alliteration with "Maine" and "millions"). You could put all that back in, of course, but at the cost of more bandwidth consumption. And since everyone has different priorities (for example, someone else might want to know that the company was in the dairy business), there's always more to add until we reach the point where we're just reading the entire article. So yeah, that's a good insight, but the top HN comment shouldn't be that the article's headline could be interpreted differently.
- gnicholas 10y ago
  I am also surprised my comment is at the top of the page — I think this is partly due to the subthread on computational lawyering. Good points, and thanks for your thoughtfulness. I agree that "misleading" could be a tad too emphatic, and I'd be open to other descriptors that might be more accurate.
esfandia 10y ago
I think you meant: Legislators drafted ambiguous statute, and company's interpretation lost out. ;)
nommm-nommm 10y ago
>When something is said to be "lacking", it implies that something should be there but isn't. I don't consider "lacking" to have that implication. Especially not in the context of the Oxford comma, as lack of an Oxford comma is well known to be a source of ambiguity(1). (1) https://theliteraryman.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/comma-comma.jpg https://theliteraryman.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/comma-com...