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>Why shouldn't the GCHQ wire tap the US president? Because it would be highly embarrassing for the UK if that actually happened, and would severely damage the

>Why shouldn't the GCHQ wire tap the US president? Because it would be highly embarrassing for the UK if that actually happened, and would severely damage the special relationship.

danbruc 10y ago
Why would that be embarrassing for the UK? Maybe you could call it embarrassing for US counter intelligence but even there it only seems justified if it would be done in a blunt manner and still go unnoticed. I won't dispute that it would not be good for the relations between the US and the UK, on the other hand the US doesn't care much either when it is spying on allied leaders. So the UK spying on the US president seems fair game under current circumstances.
- cpncrunch 10y ago
  Is there any evidence that UK/USA is spying on each other without the other country's permission and knowledge? It seems unlikely...
  - danbruc 10y ago
    Maybe Five Eyes members give each other a special treatment, maybe they share enough information that additional spying isn't worth it. With Germany there is at least one example that I am aware of where the US spied on a close ally and as far as I can tell did so without permission. But that is actually somewhat besides the point. I don't know whether the UK spies on the US in ways unknown to the US, I am not even sure whether or not it is likely that the UK wiretapped Trump even give the GCHQ statement. My point was merely that it would not be too surprising or outrageous if they did.
    - cpncrunch 10y ago
      >With Germany there is at least one example that I am aware of where the US spied on a close ally and as far as I can tell did so without permission. And that caused a big scandal. I wonder if the USA is still doing it. The other thing to bear in mind is that the USA is more powerful than UK or Germany, so it's possible they feel they can get away with it if nobody finds out.
      - danbruc 10y ago
        The US refused to sign any no-spy deal with Germany and did not rule out spying on the German government in the future. They may or may not be doing it currently, but they certainly still consider it legitimate. It also seems unlikely that Germany was an exceptional case, it seems more likely that the US is spying on all governments of interest, it just did not become public. This makes me also quite wary with respect to the UK. They may have special enough relations to get a different treatment but I don't think that the UK should feel too comfortable even with such agreements in place. If nobody finds out, you always get away with it, no matter how much or little power you have. The interesting case is if someone finds out, how well do you survive the ensuing fallout? In this case more power may of course be helpful.

>Why shouldn't the GCHQ wire tap the US president? Because it would be highly embarrassing for the UK if that actually happened, and would severely damage the special relationship.

danbruc 10y ago

Why would that be embarrassing for the UK? Maybe you could call it embarrassing for US counter intelligence but even there it only seems justified if it would be done in a blunt manner and still go unnoticed. I won't dispute that it would not be good for the relations between the US and the UK, on the other hand the US doesn't care much either when it is spying on allied leaders. So the UK spying on the US president seems fair game under current circumstances.

cpncrunch 10y ago
Is there any evidence that UK/USA is spying on each other without the other country's permission and knowledge? It seems unlikely...
- danbruc 10y ago
  Maybe Five Eyes members give each other a special treatment, maybe they share enough information that additional spying isn't worth it. With Germany there is at least one example that I am aware of where the US spied on a close ally and as far as I can tell did so without permission. But that is actually somewhat besides the point. I don't know whether the UK spies on the US in ways unknown to the US, I am not even sure whether or not it is likely that the UK wiretapped Trump even give the GCHQ statement. My point was merely that it would not be too surprising or outrageous if they did.
  - cpncrunch 10y ago
    >With Germany there is at least one example that I am aware of where the US spied on a close ally and as far as I can tell did so without permission. And that caused a big scandal. I wonder if the USA is still doing it. The other thing to bear in mind is that the USA is more powerful than UK or Germany, so it's possible they feel they can get away with it if nobody finds out.
    - danbruc 10y ago
      The US refused to sign any no-spy deal with Germany and did not rule out spying on the German government in the future. They may or may not be doing it currently, but they certainly still consider it legitimate. It also seems unlikely that Germany was an exceptional case, it seems more likely that the US is spying on all governments of interest, it just did not become public. This makes me also quite wary with respect to the UK. They may have special enough relations to get a different treatment but I don't think that the UK should feel too comfortable even with such agreements in place. If nobody finds out, you always get away with it, no matter how much or little power you have. The interesting case is if someone finds out, how well do you survive the ensuing fallout? In this case more power may of course be helpful.