11 ms·

Why don't all these people who cry for DF being open source and claim that it would create such a vibrant coding/modding community start to create their own gam

by wolfgke 10y ago

Why don't all these people who cry for DF being open source and claim that it would create such a vibrant coding/modding community start to create their own game (with a similar spirit as DF) under open source conditions of their choice?

douche 10y ago
Because they aren't capable. It's far easier to bitch and moan than actually do something,
Razengan 10y ago
I've always wanted to start one, only in side-view instead of top-down, but I'm too lazy and it would take a long time to come close to DF's depth. I'm thinking of more of a Lemmings-style game with DF mechanics and terrain deformation..
PhasmaFelis 10y ago
Because you don't need to be a master chef to tell if a meal needs more salt. "Never criticize anything unless you could personally could do it better" is a ridiculous notion mainly proposed by oversensitive creators. Also because it's annoying and wasteful to have to recreate years of effort from scratch because the people who've done it before won't share. Which is, y'know, the entire point of open source.
- wolfgke 10y ago
  > Because you don't need to be a master chef to tell if a meal needs more salt. "Never criticize anything unless you could personally could do it better" is a ridiculous notion mainly proposed by oversensitive creators. The people who want to add their own additions better understand what the source code does. So this argument does not apply here. > Also because it's annoying and wasteful to have to recreate years of effort from scratch because the people who've done it before won't share. The original creators also had to invest the time. Where do the open source fans take the justification from that if they want something similar, but under their preferred license, they should not have to invest a similar amount of time?
mos_basik 10y ago
I'm not aware of any OSS DF alternatives, but it seems like every year or so I hear about new games hitting Steam that seem (to me) to have clearly been designed by someone thinking "Let's see if I can make DF but with better graphics and ergonomics." Naturally they don't approach DF's depth, given how long Toady's been iterating. I don't hold that against them, but it seems like DF has the market cornered on sheer number of internal knobs to twist. Here are the main ones, I think (there are many others): 2014: gnomoria - http://gnomoria.com/ http://gnomoria.com/ 2015: prison architect - https://www.introversion.co.uk/prisonarchitect/pc.html https://www.introversion.co.uk/prisonarchitect/pc.html 2016: rimworld - https://rimworldgame.com/ https://rimworldgame.com/ 2017: stonehearth (alpha?) - http://www.stonehearth.net/ http://www.stonehearth.net/ None of these are open source, ofc, and my expectations for how long they receive updates is not high. Toady built his rep over decades. Aside: on the topic of hilariously complex, long lived, more or less open source games written on top of ridiculously poorly architected code with a tiny rabid fanbase - Space Station 13 deserves a mention. I'm confident that I've seen no other game like SS13 in my life. I can't even start to explain it. Please check out this high-level review of it if you're curious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLAHBexJxrE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLAHBexJxrE

by wolfgke 10y ago

douche 10y ago

Because they aren't capable. It's far easier to bitch and moan than actually do something,

Razengan 10y ago

I've always wanted to start one, only in side-view instead of top-down, but I'm too lazy and it would take a long time to come close to DF's depth. I'm thinking of more of a Lemmings-style game with DF mechanics and terrain deformation..

PhasmaFelis 10y ago

Because you don't need to be a master chef to tell if a meal needs more salt. "Never criticize anything unless you could personally could do it better" is a ridiculous notion mainly proposed by oversensitive creators. Also because it's annoying and wasteful to have to recreate years of effort from scratch because the people who've done it before won't share. Which is, y'know, the entire point of open source.

wolfgke 10y ago
> Because you don't need to be a master chef to tell if a meal needs more salt. "Never criticize anything unless you could personally could do it better" is a ridiculous notion mainly proposed by oversensitive creators. The people who want to add their own additions better understand what the source code does. So this argument does not apply here. > Also because it's annoying and wasteful to have to recreate years of effort from scratch because the people who've done it before won't share. The original creators also had to invest the time. Where do the open source fans take the justification from that if they want something similar, but under their preferred license, they should not have to invest a similar amount of time?

mos_basik 10y ago

I'm not aware of any OSS DF alternatives, but it seems like every year or so I hear about new games hitting Steam that seem (to me) to have clearly been designed by someone thinking "Let's see if I can make DF but with better graphics and ergonomics." Naturally they don't approach DF's depth, given how long Toady's been iterating. I don't hold that against them, but it seems like DF has the market cornered on sheer number of internal knobs to twist. Here are the main ones, I think (there are many others): 2014: gnomoria - http://gnomoria.com/ http://gnomoria.com/ 2015: prison architect - https://www.introversion.co.uk/prisonarchitect/pc.html https://www.introversion.co.uk/prisonarchitect/pc.html 2016: rimworld - https://rimworldgame.com/ https://rimworldgame.com/ 2017: stonehearth (alpha?) - http://www.stonehearth.net/ http://www.stonehearth.net/ None of these are open source, ofc, and my expectations for how long they receive updates is not high. Toady built his rep over decades. Aside: on the topic of hilariously complex, long lived, more or less open source games written on top of ridiculously poorly architected code with a tiny rabid fanbase - Space Station 13 deserves a mention. I'm confident that I've seen no other game like SS13 in my life. I can't even start to explain it. Please check out this high-level review of it if you're curious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLAHBexJxrE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLAHBexJxrE