4 ms·

For me, it's not that I have complete faith in the morality of Obama, NSA & GCHQ. It's that Trump has not presented any evidence for his claims, even circumstan

For me, it's not that I have complete faith in the morality of Obama, NSA & GCHQ. It's that Trump has not presented any evidence for his claims, even circumstantial. If he believes something, there should be a reason for those beliefs, and he should be able to present it. There is no point debating someone who refuses to support their stance.

coldtea 10y ago
>For me, it's not that I have complete faith in the morality of Obama, NSA & GCHQ. It's that Trump has not presented any evidence for his claims, even circumstantial.* Whether Trump, Obama, Clinton or even Pailin had said it, and whether they gave evidence or not, it's obvious that it happens. Not from an smoking-gun evidence based standpoint, but from a knowing history, and people, and such agencies priorities and how lose their leashes are standpoint. When it comes to such agencies, evidence is the last thing one would find. It's not like their advertise their operations except in extreme fiascos. But such wiretapping is completely in agreement with the essence of what they do.
- DanBC 10y ago
  Hang on. Trump's claim is not "GCHQ spied on me" - I agree this is the kind of thing that spy agencies do. Trump's claim is "GCHQ spied on me not for the UK gov, but for Obama". It's ridiculous to think GCHQ did this.
- TorKlingberg 10y ago
  I cannot base my beliefs about specific events on my general sense of what kinds of things happens. To take an example claim: "Trump is getting money that are essentially bribes from a Brazilian oil company." That feels plausible to me, and fits my general view of Trump and the world. But I don't believe it's true, in fact I just made it up.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    >I cannot base my beliefs about specific events on my general sense of what kinds of things happens. Lacking concrete evidence, that's exactly the kind of thing you should base your beliefs of specific events on.
    - TorKlingberg 10y ago
      Not without any specific evidence. Otherwise I'd have to believe an almost infinite number of things that seem possible and fit my worldview.
      - coldtea 10y ago
        >Otherwise I'd have to believe an almost infinite number of things that seem possible and fit my worldview. You don't have to believe them as absolute facts, just assign a possibility to them. After all, nothing, even "this table is real" has a 100% fact status (we might be in a dream or a simulation).

coldtea 10y ago

>For me, it's not that I have complete faith in the morality of Obama, NSA & GCHQ. It's that Trump has not presented any evidence for his claims, even circumstantial.* Whether Trump, Obama, Clinton or even Pailin had said it, and whether they gave evidence or not, it's obvious that it happens. Not from an smoking-gun evidence based standpoint, but from a knowing history, and people, and such agencies priorities and how lose their leashes are standpoint. When it comes to such agencies, evidence is the last thing one would find. It's not like their advertise their operations except in extreme fiascos. But such wiretapping is completely in agreement with the essence of what they do.

DanBC 10y ago
Hang on. Trump's claim is not "GCHQ spied on me" - I agree this is the kind of thing that spy agencies do. Trump's claim is "GCHQ spied on me not for the UK gov, but for Obama". It's ridiculous to think GCHQ did this.
TorKlingberg 10y ago
I cannot base my beliefs about specific events on my general sense of what kinds of things happens. To take an example claim: "Trump is getting money that are essentially bribes from a Brazilian oil company." That feels plausible to me, and fits my general view of Trump and the world. But I don't believe it's true, in fact I just made it up.
- coldtea 10y ago
  >I cannot base my beliefs about specific events on my general sense of what kinds of things happens. Lacking concrete evidence, that's exactly the kind of thing you should base your beliefs of specific events on.
  - TorKlingberg 10y ago
    Not without any specific evidence. Otherwise I'd have to believe an almost infinite number of things that seem possible and fit my worldview.
    - coldtea 10y ago
      >Otherwise I'd have to believe an almost infinite number of things that seem possible and fit my worldview. You don't have to believe them as absolute facts, just assign a possibility to them. After all, nothing, even "this table is real" has a 100% fact status (we might be in a dream or a simulation).