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I think I see what you're saying here: This story is about young unemployed people who have many hours to spare and use them gaming. There are similar young peo

I think I see what you're saying here: This story is about young unemployed people who have many hours to spare and use them gaming. There are similar young people who use those hours on the alt-right parts of 4chan, Reddit or other online communities.

ganfortran 10y ago
Not quite. Actually, it is not coincidence, 4chan is primarily a video game/anime forum while being the one of the online centers of alt-righters. Unemployment stays as the center of all issues here. Or bad employment if we look from a higher perspective. With low income and bad job, video game, as a way of pleasure, it is cheap per hour, very little requirement for room, easy obtain of the feeling of achievement, make it the best option of entertainment for frustrated young males out there. Bad job market creates video game addicts. It is quite logical this demographic will find alt-right philosophy appeal to them. What I disagree with the author, is that a lot of young men don't have the luxury to live a more 'normal' life, which is getting more and more expensive every year, as the society demands.
- Asooka 10y ago
  Look at it from another way - jobs don't intrinsically fill any need on Maslow's hierarchy. We do then to get the money we need to do the things that we want. Gaming - alone or in a group - does fulfill some high level human need. Obviously not for everyone, some people prefer getting drunk in company to sitting quietly at home, but that's what makes us human.
- intended 10y ago
  I think you and others on HN also need to consider a very critical issue on game design: SKinner boxes posing as games. While youth unemployment in itself generates flight/distraction direct behavior, game designers themselves are creating absolutely unethical skinner boxes which will generate addictive behavior. This is like dumping a slot machine into the hands (literally) of vulnerable children/young adults (also literally). I argue very strongly that this shit needs to be banned, and people on HN need to pick up that torch fast. Because if its not carried by the tech industry to clean its own house, its going to be used by those inimical to it.
  - soverance 10y ago
    This comment totally needs to be higher. Every other comment on this thread makes little to no mention of "Skinner Box Design", when design tactics like these are almost certainly the #1 factor for creating video game addicts. The issues we're discussing in this thread start with the game designer. Cognitive flow is a real thing, and game designers have learned through decades of research and testing how to put players into a state of cognitive flow. They've only recently (within the last 5 or 10 years) begun learning how to monetize your cognitive ability, bringing players to the brink of a flow state only to hide reward behind a paywall. The player is psychologically conditioned into a purchase by simply playing the game. Nearly everything else being discussed in this thread is a secondary issue stemming from the game designer's desire to increasingly monetize their game. This desire to monetize has given rise to the use of tactics that permeate the gambling industry. These tactics are designed to do little more than CREATE addicts - players who will return to your game and continually spend money. This, I believe, is the root cause of this issue - game designers who do not respect their players or their time. Designers who have specifically chosen to abuse and extort the emotions of their players in order to increase profits. These designs are evil, and as a game designer myself, I find the practice abhorrent. If you are a game designer reading this post, and you build games that fall into this category, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.
    - kerbalspacepro 10y ago
      I think what you are describing might be called 'Weaponized Flow State'. Flow states that arise while [acting, playing music, playing sports, programming] are really hard to generate. You have to develop those skills without "dynamic difficulty setting" that the author refers to. But when your basic skills are enough for you to do well, you can get drawn into a flow state much quicker.
      - soverance 10y ago
        I disagree that these flow states are difficult to generate. While they are extremely more common within designed experiences (such as video games), they can and have been applied with great effect to more "common" tasks, such as acting, playing music, or sports. The very best article I've found on the subject is here: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/166972/cognitive_flow_the_psychology_of_.php http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/166972/cognitive_flow_... Highly recommended reading.

ganfortran 10y ago

Not quite. Actually, it is not coincidence, 4chan is primarily a video game/anime forum while being the one of the online centers of alt-righters. Unemployment stays as the center of all issues here. Or bad employment if we look from a higher perspective. With low income and bad job, video game, as a way of pleasure, it is cheap per hour, very little requirement for room, easy obtain of the feeling of achievement, make it the best option of entertainment for frustrated young males out there. Bad job market creates video game addicts. It is quite logical this demographic will find alt-right philosophy appeal to them. What I disagree with the author, is that a lot of young men don't have the luxury to live a more 'normal' life, which is getting more and more expensive every year, as the society demands.

Asooka 10y ago
Look at it from another way - jobs don't intrinsically fill any need on Maslow's hierarchy. We do then to get the money we need to do the things that we want. Gaming - alone or in a group - does fulfill some high level human need. Obviously not for everyone, some people prefer getting drunk in company to sitting quietly at home, but that's what makes us human.
intended 10y ago
I think you and others on HN also need to consider a very critical issue on game design: SKinner boxes posing as games. While youth unemployment in itself generates flight/distraction direct behavior, game designers themselves are creating absolutely unethical skinner boxes which will generate addictive behavior. This is like dumping a slot machine into the hands (literally) of vulnerable children/young adults (also literally). I argue very strongly that this shit needs to be banned, and people on HN need to pick up that torch fast. Because if its not carried by the tech industry to clean its own house, its going to be used by those inimical to it.
- soverance 10y ago
  This comment totally needs to be higher. Every other comment on this thread makes little to no mention of "Skinner Box Design", when design tactics like these are almost certainly the #1 factor for creating video game addicts. The issues we're discussing in this thread start with the game designer. Cognitive flow is a real thing, and game designers have learned through decades of research and testing how to put players into a state of cognitive flow. They've only recently (within the last 5 or 10 years) begun learning how to monetize your cognitive ability, bringing players to the brink of a flow state only to hide reward behind a paywall. The player is psychologically conditioned into a purchase by simply playing the game. Nearly everything else being discussed in this thread is a secondary issue stemming from the game designer's desire to increasingly monetize their game. This desire to monetize has given rise to the use of tactics that permeate the gambling industry. These tactics are designed to do little more than CREATE addicts - players who will return to your game and continually spend money. This, I believe, is the root cause of this issue - game designers who do not respect their players or their time. Designers who have specifically chosen to abuse and extort the emotions of their players in order to increase profits. These designs are evil, and as a game designer myself, I find the practice abhorrent. If you are a game designer reading this post, and you build games that fall into this category, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.
  - kerbalspacepro 10y ago
    I think what you are describing might be called 'Weaponized Flow State'. Flow states that arise while [acting, playing music, playing sports, programming] are really hard to generate. You have to develop those skills without "dynamic difficulty setting" that the author refers to. But when your basic skills are enough for you to do well, you can get drawn into a flow state much quicker.
    - soverance 10y ago
      I disagree that these flow states are difficult to generate. While they are extremely more common within designed experiences (such as video games), they can and have been applied with great effect to more "common" tasks, such as acting, playing music, or sports. The very best article I've found on the subject is here: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/166972/cognitive_flow_the_psychology_of_.php http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/166972/cognitive_flow_... Highly recommended reading.