4 ms·

This is such bullshit. Right now you can walk into a long haul trucking job with zero years experience and be making $70k minimum with a $10-20k signing bonus a

This is such bullshit. Right now you can walk into a long haul trucking job with zero years experience and be making $70k minimum with a $10-20k signing bonus after a short month long training. And that's one of myriad trades that are available today. The lie that has been sold to America's youth that everyone has a "right" to go to college and is entitled to a job upon graduation will go down as one of the greatest crimes committed against an entire generation.

diogenescynic 10y ago
What are the hours and benefits like for long haul trucking? I'd imagine it's not a job widely available in West Virginia or areas where there is mass unemployment. Genuinely asking and I don't think what I said is bullshit. There are definitely people who can't find full-time jobs and spend their time playing video games because it's a cheap hobby/luxury/entertainment. Why else do you think the labor participation rate is so low? Why don't all those people who lost manufacturing or coal jobs just follow your advice? I don't think you should dismiss millions and millions of people making minimum wage, working part-time, or out of the labor force altogether and just assume (without a shred of evidence) that they are simply choosing not to take well paid jobs that you describe as so freely available.
- marknutter 10y ago
  > What are the hours and benefits like for long haul trucking? I'd imagine it's not a job widely available in West Virginia or areas where there is mass unemployment. The benefits are like any other salaried position, and the hours are restricted by federal mandate for safety reasons. The one downside is being away from home for extended periods of time, but... y'know... it's a job; if it were easy it wouldn't pay well. The labor shortage in the trades is well documented: http://www.career.org/news/shortage-of-skills-construction-skilled-trades http://www.career.org/news/shortage-of-skills-construction-s... http://www.centerforamerica.org/pledge/gr/AAMGA_Magazine_Ratzenberger_CFA_Article_8-11.pdf http://www.centerforamerica.org/pledge/gr/AAMGA_Magazine_Rat... > Why else do you think the labor participation rate is so low? Why don't all those people who lost manufacturing or coal jobs just follow your advice? They should follow my advice. My guess as to why the participation rate is so low is because Millennials are living at home with their Baby Boomer parents, playing video games and avoiding the harsh realities of adult life. They were sold on the false dream that they could get any degree they wanted and walk right out of college into a high paying, indoor job. Dreams like that are hard to wake up from. > I don't think you should dismiss millions and millions of people making minimum wage, working part-time, or out of the labor force altogether and just assume (without a shred of evidence) that they are simply choosing not to take well paid jobs that you describe as so freely available. When we no longer have a labor shortage in the trades and other blue collar jobs, I'll stop dismissing the millions of people making minimum wage.
  - diogenescynic 10y ago
    >Millennials are living at home with their Baby Boomer parents, playing video games and avoiding the harsh realities of adult life This is a terrible strawman and it really discredits the rest of the argument you're making. I'm a millennial and I don't know anyone like you're describing. >labor shortage in the trades Every time you hear "labor shortage" you need to add "at the offered salary/wage"--they need to offer more money. Why do you think people would rather work a minimum wage job than take your advice? You offer literally no explanation and just make claims without any evidence. You are speaking from opinion, not fact.
    - marknutter 10y ago
      > This is a terrible strawman and it really discredits the rest of the argument you're making. Uh.. did you even read the article we're commenting on? I'm speaking directly to its main thesis. If you're making a claim about it being a straw man, take it up with the author. > I'm a millennial and I don't know anyone like you're describing. And I'm a millennial too and I know plenty of people like the one I'm describing. > Every time you hear "labor shortage" you need to add "at the offered salary/wage"--they need to offer more money. It's not that simple. Many of the industries experiencing labor shortages are labor intensive and there are limits to the amount they can increase wages and remain economically viable. > Why do you think people would rather work a minimum wage job than take your advice? You offer literally no explanation and just make claims without any evidence. You are speaking from opinion, not fact. Frankly, Millennials aren't as money-motivated as previous generations were. They choose to accept the stigma of staying at home with their parents or working low wage service jobs over the life of a blue-collar worker. I don't even really fault them for it; money ain't everything. But they have to lie in the bed they make for themselves. They can't both live a bohemian lifestyle free from responsibility and have all the trappings of life that hard work provides.
Endy 10y ago
That requires that you're able to drive, and get a CDL on top of that. There are some people out there who are not disabled enough to actually earn Disability from the government, but whose physical or psychological issues prevent them from passing a driving test.
TulliusCicero 10y ago
From what I understand, long haul trucking is hell on your body.
- marknutter 10y ago
  As opposed to say.. programming?
  - TulliusCicero 10y ago
    Sitting in a chair all day coding isn't great, but a) long haul truckers usually seem to work long hours b) at a desk you can at least get up and walk around occasionally c) usually truckers end up eating at fast food places/diners along the way, mostly unhealthy food
nommm-nommm 10y ago
Where? I have family that was/are long haul truckers and none of them made anywhere near $70k a year and certainly didn't get a signing bonus(?!) From what I could find online median salary is around $50k, which is about right from my experience.
- marknutter 10y ago
  There's a massive shortage of long haul truckers right now. Industry turnover is at 100%. When was your family doing it? I know of quite a few places here in Minnesota that are offering $70k with a $10-20k signing bonus and still having a hell of a time retaining drivers.
  - nommm-nommm 10y ago
    Right now and in the past. If the job was so high paid and cushy then why would there be 100% turnover? And 100%? You believe there's literally nobody who is a trucker for more than a year? You are not making any sense. "Pay for truckers varies by distance and employer. Glassdoor estimates median pay for truckers drivers -- mostly long haul drivers -- is $54,000. The American Trucking Association says that truckers who work for a private fleet can earn up to $73,000 a year." Up to, not minimum. For someone who's very experienced not some inexperienced bozo off the street who doesnt even have a CDL. Not even the frigging industry claims you're going to make $90k your first year.
    - marknutter 10y ago
      You are right, I was wrong about it being "minimum". $54k is still an absurdly high salary for any entry level employee, so my original point about there being plenty of jobs out there still stands. And I know that turnover rate sounds absurd, but it's really that bad: https://www.forbes.com/sites/maryjosephs/2016/01/06/100-driver-turnover-hurts-trucking-industry-correct-ma-approach-can-fix-it/#4fd7caa650f2 https://www.forbes.com/sites/maryjosephs/2016/01/06/100-driv...
      - 10y ago

diogenescynic 10y ago

What are the hours and benefits like for long haul trucking? I'd imagine it's not a job widely available in West Virginia or areas where there is mass unemployment. Genuinely asking and I don't think what I said is bullshit. There are definitely people who can't find full-time jobs and spend their time playing video games because it's a cheap hobby/luxury/entertainment. Why else do you think the labor participation rate is so low? Why don't all those people who lost manufacturing or coal jobs just follow your advice? I don't think you should dismiss millions and millions of people making minimum wage, working part-time, or out of the labor force altogether and just assume (without a shred of evidence) that they are simply choosing not to take well paid jobs that you describe as so freely available.

marknutter 10y ago
> What are the hours and benefits like for long haul trucking? I'd imagine it's not a job widely available in West Virginia or areas where there is mass unemployment. The benefits are like any other salaried position, and the hours are restricted by federal mandate for safety reasons. The one downside is being away from home for extended periods of time, but... y'know... it's a job; if it were easy it wouldn't pay well. The labor shortage in the trades is well documented: http://www.career.org/news/shortage-of-skills-construction-skilled-trades http://www.career.org/news/shortage-of-skills-construction-s... http://www.centerforamerica.org/pledge/gr/AAMGA_Magazine_Ratzenberger_CFA_Article_8-11.pdf http://www.centerforamerica.org/pledge/gr/AAMGA_Magazine_Rat... > Why else do you think the labor participation rate is so low? Why don't all those people who lost manufacturing or coal jobs just follow your advice? They should follow my advice. My guess as to why the participation rate is so low is because Millennials are living at home with their Baby Boomer parents, playing video games and avoiding the harsh realities of adult life. They were sold on the false dream that they could get any degree they wanted and walk right out of college into a high paying, indoor job. Dreams like that are hard to wake up from. > I don't think you should dismiss millions and millions of people making minimum wage, working part-time, or out of the labor force altogether and just assume (without a shred of evidence) that they are simply choosing not to take well paid jobs that you describe as so freely available. When we no longer have a labor shortage in the trades and other blue collar jobs, I'll stop dismissing the millions of people making minimum wage.
- diogenescynic 10y ago
  >Millennials are living at home with their Baby Boomer parents, playing video games and avoiding the harsh realities of adult life This is a terrible strawman and it really discredits the rest of the argument you're making. I'm a millennial and I don't know anyone like you're describing. >labor shortage in the trades Every time you hear "labor shortage" you need to add "at the offered salary/wage"--they need to offer more money. Why do you think people would rather work a minimum wage job than take your advice? You offer literally no explanation and just make claims without any evidence. You are speaking from opinion, not fact.
  - marknutter 10y ago
    > This is a terrible strawman and it really discredits the rest of the argument you're making. Uh.. did you even read the article we're commenting on? I'm speaking directly to its main thesis. If you're making a claim about it being a straw man, take it up with the author. > I'm a millennial and I don't know anyone like you're describing. And I'm a millennial too and I know plenty of people like the one I'm describing. > Every time you hear "labor shortage" you need to add "at the offered salary/wage"--they need to offer more money. It's not that simple. Many of the industries experiencing labor shortages are labor intensive and there are limits to the amount they can increase wages and remain economically viable. > Why do you think people would rather work a minimum wage job than take your advice? You offer literally no explanation and just make claims without any evidence. You are speaking from opinion, not fact. Frankly, Millennials aren't as money-motivated as previous generations were. They choose to accept the stigma of staying at home with their parents or working low wage service jobs over the life of a blue-collar worker. I don't even really fault them for it; money ain't everything. But they have to lie in the bed they make for themselves. They can't both live a bohemian lifestyle free from responsibility and have all the trappings of life that hard work provides.

Endy 10y ago

That requires that you're able to drive, and get a CDL on top of that. There are some people out there who are not disabled enough to actually earn Disability from the government, but whose physical or psychological issues prevent them from passing a driving test.

TulliusCicero 10y ago

From what I understand, long haul trucking is hell on your body.

marknutter 10y ago
As opposed to say.. programming?
- TulliusCicero 10y ago
  Sitting in a chair all day coding isn't great, but a) long haul truckers usually seem to work long hours b) at a desk you can at least get up and walk around occasionally c) usually truckers end up eating at fast food places/diners along the way, mostly unhealthy food

nommm-nommm 10y ago

Where? I have family that was/are long haul truckers and none of them made anywhere near $70k a year and certainly didn't get a signing bonus(?!) From what I could find online median salary is around $50k, which is about right from my experience.

marknutter 10y ago
There's a massive shortage of long haul truckers right now. Industry turnover is at 100%. When was your family doing it? I know of quite a few places here in Minnesota that are offering $70k with a $10-20k signing bonus and still having a hell of a time retaining drivers.
- nommm-nommm 10y ago
  Right now and in the past. If the job was so high paid and cushy then why would there be 100% turnover? And 100%? You believe there's literally nobody who is a trucker for more than a year? You are not making any sense. "Pay for truckers varies by distance and employer. Glassdoor estimates median pay for truckers drivers -- mostly long haul drivers -- is $54,000. The American Trucking Association says that truckers who work for a private fleet can earn up to $73,000 a year." Up to, not minimum. For someone who's very experienced not some inexperienced bozo off the street who doesnt even have a CDL. Not even the frigging industry claims you're going to make $90k your first year.
  - marknutter 10y ago
    You are right, I was wrong about it being "minimum". $54k is still an absurdly high salary for any entry level employee, so my original point about there being plenty of jobs out there still stands. And I know that turnover rate sounds absurd, but it's really that bad: https://www.forbes.com/sites/maryjosephs/2016/01/06/100-driver-turnover-hurts-trucking-industry-correct-ma-approach-can-fix-it/#4fd7caa650f2 https://www.forbes.com/sites/maryjosephs/2016/01/06/100-driv...
    - 10y ago