5 ms·

They absolutely did vote for this Congress.

by Arizhel 10y ago

dragonwriter 10y ago
It's far from clear that even this Congress supports the Trump budget, so that's irrelevant to the argument that the American people, in general, voted for the contents of the Trump budget, even indirectly by voting for politicians that support it.
- Arizhel 10y ago
  Most of the points of the Trump budget are things the Republican Congresspeople agree with to some extent. They're just arguing now among themselves, with extremist Republicans wanting even more cuts, and moderate ones wanting less. They're all basically in favor of things like gutting the EPA and social programs. So it's entirely logical to conclude that the American people want a budget more-or-less like this one. They're just quibbling over details.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    > Most of the points of the Trump budget are things the Republican Congresspeople agree with to some extent. Only in the sense that being tied down and forced to consume a gallon of everclear, because it is "consuming alcohol", is something that someone who ocassionally has a drink or two in an evening supports "to some extent". > So it's entirely logical to conclude that the American people want a budget more-or-less like this one. Defined broadly enough, any budget is "more-or-less" like this one, but there's not any evidence that the American people support a budget very much like this one.
    - Arizhel 10y ago
      Where are you getting this insane idea? Wishful thinking? The people clearly voted for GOP candidates across the board, at national, state, and local levels. It's no secret that the GOP generally dislikes spending on social programs, the environment, climate science, etc., and supports massive spending on defense. Therefore, it's quite clear that the American people support a budget something like this, which boosts military spending while cutting spending for social programs, the arts, the EPA, and climate science.
      - dragonwriter 10y ago
        > It's no secret that the GOP generally dislikes spending on social programs, the environment, climate science, etc., and supports massive spending on defense. It's no secret that they differ from Democrats, on average, in those directions. It's also not a secret that the GOP—including a large percentage of those currently serving on Congress whose election you are trying to use as evidence of support for the Trump budget—has has not generally sought the kind of spending choices in the Trump budget, even when they had unitary control of government under George W. Bush. > Therefore, it's quite clear that the American people support a budget something like this "Something like this" is a vague term that could apply to any budget. Given the wide range of issues in the elections involved, it's not clear that any coherent message on budget priorities can be drawn, but, even ignoring that, it's unreasonable to conclude that even viewing every Congressional seat's election as a budget referendum with no confounding issues would get support for a budget with the kind of extreme cuts in the Trump budget. Yes, the direction of changes is what you'd expect from any Republican government. The direction isn't the thing that makes this budget noteworty, though. Voting for dessert with dinner doesn't mean you support being forcefed a full-sheet cake. Radical differences of magnitude can't just be swept under the rug as irrelevant.
      - mhneu 10y ago
        There was widespread voter suppression (the NC GOP bragged about it). Also the right wing media (radio, Fox News, Breitbart) lies blatantly. And the GOP donor class (the rich and corporations) have generously funded promoting their agenda (cut taxes on the rich) including through ALEC and the State Policy Network. Despite all the lies and money, the current administration lost the popular vote and more people voted for Democratic than Republican senators. America is a left-liberal nation that has been taken over by the agenda of the very wealthy through dirty electoral tricks. The balance will swing back to caring about people eventually.
hackuser 10y ago
> They absolutely did vote for this Congress. Due to gerrymandering, they did not. In each of the last three House elections, the Dems' House seats have been ~2.5% beneath their national vote, and the GOP's House seats have been 5-6% above their national vote. In 2012, Democrats actually won more seats nationwide but the GOP got 53.6% of the seats. Also, this data ignores the voter suppression laws that prevent primarily Democratic citizens from voting. * 2012 Nationwide vote: Dem 48.8% / GOP 47.6% Seats won: Dem 46.2% / GOP 53.8% * 2014 Nationwide vote: Dem 45.5% / GOP 51.2% Seats won: Dem 43.2% / GOP 56.8% * 2016 Nationwide vote: Dem 48.0% / GOP 49.1% Seats won: Dem 44.6% / GOP 55.4%

They absolutely did vote for this Congress.

by Arizhel 10y ago

They absolutely did vote for this Congress.

It's far from clear that even this Congress supports the Trump budget, so that's irrelevant to the argument that the American people, in general, voted for the contents of the Trump budget, even indirectly by voting for politicians that support it.

Arizhel 10y ago
Most of the points of the Trump budget are things the Republican Congresspeople agree with to some extent. They're just arguing now among themselves, with extremist Republicans wanting even more cuts, and moderate ones wanting less. They're all basically in favor of things like gutting the EPA and social programs. So it's entirely logical to conclude that the American people want a budget more-or-less like this one. They're just quibbling over details.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > Most of the points of the Trump budget are things the Republican Congresspeople agree with to some extent. Only in the sense that being tied down and forced to consume a gallon of everclear, because it is "consuming alcohol", is something that someone who ocassionally has a drink or two in an evening supports "to some extent". > So it's entirely logical to conclude that the American people want a budget more-or-less like this one. Defined broadly enough, any budget is "more-or-less" like this one, but there's not any evidence that the American people support a budget very much like this one.
  - Arizhel 10y ago
    Where are you getting this insane idea? Wishful thinking? The people clearly voted for GOP candidates across the board, at national, state, and local levels. It's no secret that the GOP generally dislikes spending on social programs, the environment, climate science, etc., and supports massive spending on defense. Therefore, it's quite clear that the American people support a budget something like this, which boosts military spending while cutting spending for social programs, the arts, the EPA, and climate science.
    - dragonwriter 10y ago
      > It's no secret that the GOP generally dislikes spending on social programs, the environment, climate science, etc., and supports massive spending on defense. It's no secret that they differ from Democrats, on average, in those directions. It's also not a secret that the GOP—including a large percentage of those currently serving on Congress whose election you are trying to use as evidence of support for the Trump budget—has has not generally sought the kind of spending choices in the Trump budget, even when they had unitary control of government under George W. Bush. > Therefore, it's quite clear that the American people support a budget something like this "Something like this" is a vague term that could apply to any budget. Given the wide range of issues in the elections involved, it's not clear that any coherent message on budget priorities can be drawn, but, even ignoring that, it's unreasonable to conclude that even viewing every Congressional seat's election as a budget referendum with no confounding issues would get support for a budget with the kind of extreme cuts in the Trump budget. Yes, the direction of changes is what you'd expect from any Republican government. The direction isn't the thing that makes this budget noteworty, though. Voting for dessert with dinner doesn't mean you support being forcefed a full-sheet cake. Radical differences of magnitude can't just be swept under the rug as irrelevant.
    - mhneu 10y ago
      There was widespread voter suppression (the NC GOP bragged about it). Also the right wing media (radio, Fox News, Breitbart) lies blatantly. And the GOP donor class (the rich and corporations) have generously funded promoting their agenda (cut taxes on the rich) including through ALEC and the State Policy Network. Despite all the lies and money, the current administration lost the popular vote and more people voted for Democratic than Republican senators. America is a left-liberal nation that has been taken over by the agenda of the very wealthy through dirty electoral tricks. The balance will swing back to caring about people eventually.

hackuser 10y ago

> They absolutely did vote for this Congress. Due to gerrymandering, they did not. In each of the last three House elections, the Dems' House seats have been ~2.5% beneath their national vote, and the GOP's House seats have been 5-6% above their national vote. In 2012, Democrats actually won more seats nationwide but the GOP got 53.6% of the seats. Also, this data ignores the voter suppression laws that prevent primarily Democratic citizens from voting. * 2012 Nationwide vote: Dem 48.8% / GOP 47.6% Seats won: Dem 46.2% / GOP 53.8% * 2014 Nationwide vote: Dem 45.5% / GOP 51.2% Seats won: Dem 43.2% / GOP 56.8% * 2016 Nationwide vote: Dem 48.0% / GOP 49.1% Seats won: Dem 44.6% / GOP 55.4%