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It's everything that's wrong with regulation. Even the logic of punishment rather than reward is flawed (you train humans with positive feedback/reinforcement,

by K0SM0S 10y ago

It's everything that's wrong with regulation. Even the logic of punishment rather than reward is flawed (you train humans with positive feedback/reinforcement, the negative kind works comparatively worse or not at all). Edit: I understand the downvotes, relatively (e.g. as seen by Californians relatively to the US in general). Just know that I speak from France, a country where regulation has gone way, way overboard insofar as it cripples the economy moreso than it protects individuals, by ultimately preventing any reform/change/disruption whatsoever in many, many sectors. There's such a thing as "balance" and "intelligence in regulating". On a general level I very much advocate for a strict body of regulation; I just think it should be as minimal, solid, logical and simple (intelligible) as possible. Which is very much not the case in my country.

dragonwriter 10y ago
Reinforcement (including positive reinforcement) training for adult humans works especially poorly and attempts to implement it often have perverse, demotivating effects. Regulation is more about creating incentives than conditioning.
- K0SM0S 10y ago
  Do you have sources about that? My current understanding is completely otherwise. Taken from the general wiki article[1]: > The study of reinforcement has produced an enormous body of reproducible experimental results. Reinforcement is the central concept and procedure in special education, applied behavior analysis, and the experimental analysis of behavior and is a core concept in some medical and psychopharmacology models, particularly addiction, dependence, and compulsion. Which also confirms pretty much everything an ex-gf, who completed a master in Psychology when we were dating, told me about positive versus negative reinforcement. Basically, stick doesn't work much, carrot does. I agree that it's a widely different topic for regulation. I probably shouldn't have mixed the two so directly, there are many discrepancies. However it's been shown that incentives (i.e. rewards, positive reinforcement of some behaviors) work at the societal level, e.g. family/reproduction incentives (giving money to people who have children; I don't know how these policies are called in the US), or incentives to buy houses, newer cars, etc. > more about creating incentives than conditioning I fail to grasp how the former isn't a particular subset of the latter. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement

by K0SM0S 10y ago

dragonwriter 10y ago

Reinforcement (including positive reinforcement) training for adult humans works especially poorly and attempts to implement it often have perverse, demotivating effects. Regulation is more about creating incentives than conditioning.

K0SM0S 10y ago
Do you have sources about that? My current understanding is completely otherwise. Taken from the general wiki article[1]: > The study of reinforcement has produced an enormous body of reproducible experimental results. Reinforcement is the central concept and procedure in special education, applied behavior analysis, and the experimental analysis of behavior and is a core concept in some medical and psychopharmacology models, particularly addiction, dependence, and compulsion. Which also confirms pretty much everything an ex-gf, who completed a master in Psychology when we were dating, told me about positive versus negative reinforcement. Basically, stick doesn't work much, carrot does. I agree that it's a widely different topic for regulation. I probably shouldn't have mixed the two so directly, there are many discrepancies. However it's been shown that incentives (i.e. rewards, positive reinforcement of some behaviors) work at the societal level, e.g. family/reproduction incentives (giving money to people who have children; I don't know how these policies are called in the US), or incentives to buy houses, newer cars, etc. > more about creating incentives than conditioning I fail to grasp how the former isn't a particular subset of the latter. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement