5 ms·

I concur. I play a lot of disc golf, and it's amazing how hard it can be to find something that is in brush and grass. I've put down my bag while looking for d

I concur. I play a lot of disc golf, and it's amazing how hard it can be to find something that is in brush and grass. I've put down my bag while looking for discs before, walked 20 feet, turned around to go back to my bag and not been able to find it. I've seen where discs have fallen, immediately run over to the spot, and not been able to find them despite looking for nearly an hour. You can be standing with someone, point out something on the ground to them, and they won't be able to see it until to are basically touching it. I've done Search and Rescue training as well. What I've taken from both is that you do not want to be lost, and if you are lost you do not want to be far from where people are expecting you to be. This is in part because you want to narrow the search area, but also because people have an incredible ability to overlook things that aren't expecting. One thing I didn't realize before I did all of this was how useless looking for a given shape is. Unless it is extremely flat, you are probably just looking for splashes of color. You would not believe the amount of color there is in the middle of a forest, or a field, etc, until you start looking for a particular color. Flowers, garbage, mottled sun, you can basically get any color you imagine out there. I think we like to imagine we've reached a point where we can know everything we want to about our planet, and the only limiting factor is what we can focus our attention on. That's not true though. Even with effectively limitless resources, it took over a year to find Steve Fossett's body. The world is an incredibly vast place, and we are incredibly small.

miceeatnicerice 10y ago
Looking for small things in a field requires, and promotes, a particular mindset - like you have to let your imagination run from the slightest impressions, and trust your innate powers of recognition. I sometimes go mushrooming (like John Cage, fact fans) and the funnest part of it is the battle with my own thought processes, as I attempt to turn myself into a slick mushroom-detecting machine via consciousness-dilation. I like to think the key's not complete thoughtlessness, but rather an appreciation of the vastness the field without caring too much about any one part of it. Which is a bit wishy-washy, but forms a good basis.
- odonnellryan 10y ago
  I was going to bring up mushrooming! Very interesting. I've heard Morels are TOUGH to spot. I want to go next season, since I live in NJ and it's supposed to be a good area to find them.
  - LeifCarrotson 10y ago
    I'm in Michigan and it's definitely worthwhile! I suggest going with someone who knows the business until you find a few and know what you are looking for. The first time you see one, you'll start seeing them everywhere. Until you don't. The expectation that you will or will not see them definitely messes with your head.
- Declanomous 10y ago
  > I like to think the key's not complete thoughtlessness, but rather an appreciation of the vastness the field without caring too much about any one part of it. Which is a bit wishy-washy, but forms a good basis. It's definitely a hard thing to describe, but I think you are doing a pretty good job of articulating it. It's kind of like meditation, in the sense that you need to approach it in a very structured way with an open/empty mind. It's why Bayesian methods are so effective for searching. You first imagine all of the possibilities, and then you search for evidence that either supports or refutes them. If you are in an area and you have searched everywhere and you are convinced it is in that area, you need to consider the fact that it isn't in that area and to move on. I can't tell you how many times I've been looking for a disc at a certain distance, thinking "it couldn't be any farther up, I can't throw that far" (or vice versa), only to walk 25 feet farther up and find my disc. Preconceived notions are the enemy of a successful search.
xoa 10y ago
>I've done Search and Rescue training as well. What I've taken from both is that you do not want to be lost, and if you are lost you do not want to be far from where people are expecting you to be. This is in part because you want to narrow the search area, but also because people have an incredible ability to overlook things that aren't expecting. >One thing I didn't realize before I did all of this was how useless looking for a given shape is. Unless it is extremely flat, you are probably just looking for splashes of color. You would not believe the amount of color there is in the middle of a forest, or a field, etc, until you start looking for a particular color. Flowers, garbage, mottled sun, you can basically get any color you imagine out there. Very true. This is the same sort of basic issue that a lot of optical illusions and magic tricks are based on. Human brains (and to some extent probably many animals in general) tend to out of necessity be a lot more sensitive to change vs static imagery and use a lot of processing shortcuts. There is so much data constantly coming in that processing all of it would be paralyzing, so a lot of the work really is throwing most of it out. That's also why active signaling is so valuable in emergency situations. Even without touching on any sort of networked devices, tools like colored smoke flares, LED lamps/torches with a strobe feature, highly reflective metallized boPET (aka Mylar and other brands) flags or streamers light enough to have significant motion even in very minimal breeze, alarms, etc are all quite valuable because their dynamic and artificial nature makes them stand out more clearly from farther away. The problem comes with them needing at least some level of consciousness and ability to take action to deploy. I do think there's more room still for innovation in safety equipment when it comes to automated emergency signal systems that can be linked to biomonitoring and thus respond automatically to signs of distress if the user doesn't cancel it after a given timeout. There are some products on the market right now, but the ones I'm aware of are purely electronic and depend on S&R having a receiver of the right type and/or on availability of network coverage. Satellite-based emergency signals don't seem to be practical or economic enough yet for ubiquitous usage. They both can still be incredibly valuable, but in addition it might be nice in some situations if automated deployment could be linked to non-electronic signals. For example, a compact self-contained system attachable to the top of a backpack with mylar balloon (possibly with a small strobing LED lamp), enough helium for auto-inflation, and a 100-200 ft tether that could be triggered automatically or manually. Standard mylar balloons can remain taut for a good 5 days and float for a couple weeks before losing too much lift, and the weight and cost of the basic components should be reasonable. While of limited use in certain environments like dense forest, in many areas it'd have no trouble reaching full extension. A floating bobbing reflective object (or at night lit by even a minimal LED) should be visible from a significant distance vs something on the ground but be safer and easier to deploy then trying to climb something to achieve vertical. Effective signal lifetime vs other consumables seems like it might be favorable as well. Or maybe there is something like this already?
ChuckMcM 10y ago
i saw an excellent magenta/orange vest that was trying to address this.
sushid 10y ago
Sounds like you can benefit from one of those bluetooth lost-item finding device (e.g. Tile or TrackR).

miceeatnicerice 10y ago

Looking for small things in a field requires, and promotes, a particular mindset - like you have to let your imagination run from the slightest impressions, and trust your innate powers of recognition. I sometimes go mushrooming (like John Cage, fact fans) and the funnest part of it is the battle with my own thought processes, as I attempt to turn myself into a slick mushroom-detecting machine via consciousness-dilation. I like to think the key's not complete thoughtlessness, but rather an appreciation of the vastness the field without caring too much about any one part of it. Which is a bit wishy-washy, but forms a good basis.

odonnellryan 10y ago
I was going to bring up mushrooming! Very interesting. I've heard Morels are TOUGH to spot. I want to go next season, since I live in NJ and it's supposed to be a good area to find them.
- LeifCarrotson 10y ago
  I'm in Michigan and it's definitely worthwhile! I suggest going with someone who knows the business until you find a few and know what you are looking for. The first time you see one, you'll start seeing them everywhere. Until you don't. The expectation that you will or will not see them definitely messes with your head.
Declanomous 10y ago
> I like to think the key's not complete thoughtlessness, but rather an appreciation of the vastness the field without caring too much about any one part of it. Which is a bit wishy-washy, but forms a good basis. It's definitely a hard thing to describe, but I think you are doing a pretty good job of articulating it. It's kind of like meditation, in the sense that you need to approach it in a very structured way with an open/empty mind. It's why Bayesian methods are so effective for searching. You first imagine all of the possibilities, and then you search for evidence that either supports or refutes them. If you are in an area and you have searched everywhere and you are convinced it is in that area, you need to consider the fact that it isn't in that area and to move on. I can't tell you how many times I've been looking for a disc at a certain distance, thinking "it couldn't be any farther up, I can't throw that far" (or vice versa), only to walk 25 feet farther up and find my disc. Preconceived notions are the enemy of a successful search.

xoa 10y ago

>I've done Search and Rescue training as well. What I've taken from both is that you do not want to be lost, and if you are lost you do not want to be far from where people are expecting you to be. This is in part because you want to narrow the search area, but also because people have an incredible ability to overlook things that aren't expecting. >One thing I didn't realize before I did all of this was how useless looking for a given shape is. Unless it is extremely flat, you are probably just looking for splashes of color. You would not believe the amount of color there is in the middle of a forest, or a field, etc, until you start looking for a particular color. Flowers, garbage, mottled sun, you can basically get any color you imagine out there. Very true. This is the same sort of basic issue that a lot of optical illusions and magic tricks are based on. Human brains (and to some extent probably many animals in general) tend to out of necessity be a lot more sensitive to change vs static imagery and use a lot of processing shortcuts. There is so much data constantly coming in that processing all of it would be paralyzing, so a lot of the work really is throwing most of it out. That's also why active signaling is so valuable in emergency situations. Even without touching on any sort of networked devices, tools like colored smoke flares, LED lamps/torches with a strobe feature, highly reflective metallized boPET (aka Mylar and other brands) flags or streamers light enough to have significant motion even in very minimal breeze, alarms, etc are all quite valuable because their dynamic and artificial nature makes them stand out more clearly from farther away. The problem comes with them needing at least some level of consciousness and ability to take action to deploy. I do think there's more room still for innovation in safety equipment when it comes to automated emergency signal systems that can be linked to biomonitoring and thus respond automatically to signs of distress if the user doesn't cancel it after a given timeout. There are some products on the market right now, but the ones I'm aware of are purely electronic and depend on S&R having a receiver of the right type and/or on availability of network coverage. Satellite-based emergency signals don't seem to be practical or economic enough yet for ubiquitous usage. They both can still be incredibly valuable, but in addition it might be nice in some situations if automated deployment could be linked to non-electronic signals. For example, a compact self-contained system attachable to the top of a backpack with mylar balloon (possibly with a small strobing LED lamp), enough helium for auto-inflation, and a 100-200 ft tether that could be triggered automatically or manually. Standard mylar balloons can remain taut for a good 5 days and float for a couple weeks before losing too much lift, and the weight and cost of the basic components should be reasonable. While of limited use in certain environments like dense forest, in many areas it'd have no trouble reaching full extension. A floating bobbing reflective object (or at night lit by even a minimal LED) should be visible from a significant distance vs something on the ground but be safer and easier to deploy then trying to climb something to achieve vertical. Effective signal lifetime vs other consumables seems like it might be favorable as well. Or maybe there is something like this already?

ChuckMcM 10y ago

i saw an excellent magenta/orange vest that was trying to address this.

sushid 10y ago

Sounds like you can benefit from one of those bluetooth lost-item finding device (e.g. Tile or TrackR).