4 ms·

The Matrix universe should be expanded, not remade

34 points by artsandsci 10y ago

elmerfud 10y ago
I would agree with this if they scrapped the Neo trilogy as non-cannon and used Animatrix as the cannon world. The Matrix sequels flubbed it bad enough that something drastic needs to the story universe.
- hitekker 10y ago
  Of the animatrix, I think the Second Renaissace has the least baggage and most promise. Highly recommend watching! Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0K6Cb1ZoG4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0K6Cb1ZoG4 Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNiO2sTe2wo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNiO2sTe2wo
jlebrech 10y ago
maybe fix the slavery for human batteries concept.
- r00fus 10y ago
  They should change the battery reference to be compute nodes, a la Hyperion cantos. That makes a lot more sense. Hell, just make the Hyperion movie instead.
  - goatlover 10y ago
    The battery thing was terrible. Seriously, audiences were too dumb to understand using human brains as computing nodes in 1999?
  - krapp 10y ago
    >They should change the battery reference to be compute nodes, a la Hyperion cantos. That was what was originally intended. It was changed to on the assumption that audiences would be too stupid to comprehend it.
    - jlebrech 10y ago
      hollywood needs to stop assuming it's audience are idiots.
drzaiusapelord 10y ago
>It’s not entirely clear yet if the studio wants a remake with Neo, Agent Smith, and the rest of the core characters, a new film set in the established world, or something between the two. Uh, what is this author railing against? A possibility that exists only in his head? Is there any evidence this is even in the cards? I can't imagine the Wachowski's doing a cheap Spiderman-like cash out of just re-doing origin stories over and over again. People may not have liked Reloaded and Revolutions, but they were expansive and very, very different than the original, less ambitious, movie. Personally, I'd just like to see this wanna-be franchise die. So much was covered in the originals and the various conflicts in the movies end up nicely resolved. I suspect regardless of the direction chosen, there's a real path to a Lucas-like Phanton Menace disaster here. I also prefer the Wachoswski's to stay weird and not to retread old glories. I can't imagine anyone else with the will, connections, money, talent, and politics to make a great Cloud Atlas movie, but they somehow pulled it off. That said, I'd love to see the Matrix IP put towards video games. There's still a lot of fun to have in that world. Why isn't anyone making a well funded Matrix Vive game? More Matrix movies is a bit like making more Viewmaster film circles. The tech, culture, and innovation have moved on past movies when it comes to cyberpunky storytelling. I want a 3D vista that surrounds me, not crunching popcorn in a uncomfortable seat and staring at a wall while the people around me send text messages and make noise.
- WorldMaker 10y ago
  «Uh, what is this author railing against? A possibility that exists only in his head? Is there any evidence this is even in the cards?» Warner Brothers announced just recently that they had a script and a lead actor in mind. The Wachowskis are not involved at all (and can't possibly be, given their already full dance card with Sense8 and other projects). WB owns the rights out right after producer Joel Silver sold his majority share so they can pretty much do what they want. The scuttlebutt is that they want to full and completely reboot/remake the franchise, starting from square one, which presumably means a new Neo, Agent Smith, etc.
WorldMaker 10y ago
I am one of the very rare people that thinks the two sequels were better than the first film on every level, but I also hated the first film the first time I saw it. I'd also love to see the short film excised from Enter the Matrix and edited back into the sequels. I think there is room maybe even for some animated recap of important parts of The Matrix Online's story edited into a coda at the end of Revolutions...
- goatlover 10y ago
  I don't understand what's better about the sequels. Over the top CGI and action, overdoing the philosophical and religious mumbo jumbo, too much boring and confusing dialog, not following up on Neo's God-like resurrection at the end of the first where he was going to free the human race from the matrix in favor of deconstructing him and recasting him as recurring program. They were worse in virtually every way from the first, but to each his own, I guess.
  - WorldMaker 10y ago
    The sequels had some better set pieces. Even though the CGI doesn't quite hold up, the Burly Brawl and the Freeway alone are better than anything in the first. Even the "war scenes" from Revolutions that a lot of people find boring/drag on are better action pieces. But the big reason I like the sequels more than the first is the "overdoing the philosophical and religious mumbo jumbo" and the "too much boring and confusing dialog". While I will admit the scenes could be better written, I hated how seriously the first movie seemed to take its philosophy and religious mumbo jumbo, and the sequels go out of the way to overdo it and over-explain it seemingly precisely because it isn't actually that serious (it's a set of control systems and metaphors spiraled out of control, just like you would expect from a computer system; it's more like the real world than Tron in this where program names get picked out of a hat from old legends and ancient deities and broken metaphors) and doesn't really mean anything and is almost entirely broken (by design). That's essentially the point of the much maligned Architect scenery chewing, but I think the Cake and Limbo scenes better articulate it. The sequels even mostly agree that the "battery problem" is a problem and probably a lie. It's a complaint I have with the Animatrix that it takes the battery thing seriously, whereas the sequels seem to hint that even that is a lie the machines spread to control and confuse. (Then again, from the view of the sequels, the Animatrix is likely legends, folklore, and propaganda.)
pasbesoin 10y ago
They remade "Point Break". (Said remake I am not going to watch.) They're remaking "The Matrix". ... Wait, someone is trying to erase Keanu Reeves! Clever, Agent Smith! Hat tip... P.S. (I'm clearly never going to watch the eventual remake of "Lake House"...)
krapp 10y ago
Even though, at this point it's so well known that it's cliche, I hope they actually go through with the (rumored but non-canon) premise that Zion itself is just another level of the Matrix. I always liked the idea of undermining the typical cyberpunk trope of "jacking in to VR" and liberating oneself from the control of the system, when there's no reason for the Machines to ever allow humans to actually leave the Matrix. If they dispense with the "humans as batteries" rationale for the Matrix altogether, which they should because it was a condescending cop-out on the original premise that the Matrix was using human brains to bootstrap its AI, there's no reason humans should even have physical bodies to escape to, or for the Machines to exist as anything more than software. Everything should just be ever more intricate levels of control, the characters should never even see the real world. Or, even better, we never know if they do or not.
- Sarkie 10y ago
  Yeah I wanted exactly this, The Matrix and Zion was another layer, and Neo was only one who could penetrate the final layer. Hence he could affect stuff in the "real world" as it was still in a machine and was still running through another algorithm, and to balance the equation was for that particular version of it. I wanted to call the final film Matrix : Revelations. Where the final layer was the whole world used VR under one Skynet/i, robot style thing maybe, and one day it went rogue but couldn't kill per se, and if anyone ever managed to get out of the VR world, they'd realise it had gone rogue and turn it off, so it had to keep inventing new layers and things to keep people connected and stop them wanting to figuring out how to wake up. I feel that'd be a nice ending, can mix in Skynet, Inception, Matrix, Surrogates and fixes a lot of issues I had with the trilogy and could still have Keanu,and could even have different Matrices distributed throughout the world, managing to hack into the other ones to get a decent ending.

34 points by artsandsci 10y ago

I would agree with this if they scrapped the Neo trilogy as non-cannon and used Animatrix as the cannon world. The Matrix sequels flubbed it bad enough that something drastic needs to the story universe.

hitekker 10y ago
Of the animatrix, I think the Second Renaissace has the least baggage and most promise. Highly recommend watching! Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0K6Cb1ZoG4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0K6Cb1ZoG4 Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNiO2sTe2wo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNiO2sTe2wo

jlebrech 10y ago

maybe fix the slavery for human batteries concept.

r00fus 10y ago
They should change the battery reference to be compute nodes, a la Hyperion cantos. That makes a lot more sense. Hell, just make the Hyperion movie instead.
- goatlover 10y ago
  The battery thing was terrible. Seriously, audiences were too dumb to understand using human brains as computing nodes in 1999?
- krapp 10y ago
  >They should change the battery reference to be compute nodes, a la Hyperion cantos. That was what was originally intended. It was changed to on the assumption that audiences would be too stupid to comprehend it.
  - jlebrech 10y ago
    hollywood needs to stop assuming it's audience are idiots.

drzaiusapelord 10y ago

>It’s not entirely clear yet if the studio wants a remake with Neo, Agent Smith, and the rest of the core characters, a new film set in the established world, or something between the two. Uh, what is this author railing against? A possibility that exists only in his head? Is there any evidence this is even in the cards? I can't imagine the Wachowski's doing a cheap Spiderman-like cash out of just re-doing origin stories over and over again. People may not have liked Reloaded and Revolutions, but they were expansive and very, very different than the original, less ambitious, movie. Personally, I'd just like to see this wanna-be franchise die. So much was covered in the originals and the various conflicts in the movies end up nicely resolved. I suspect regardless of the direction chosen, there's a real path to a Lucas-like Phanton Menace disaster here. I also prefer the Wachoswski's to stay weird and not to retread old glories. I can't imagine anyone else with the will, connections, money, talent, and politics to make a great Cloud Atlas movie, but they somehow pulled it off. That said, I'd love to see the Matrix IP put towards video games. There's still a lot of fun to have in that world. Why isn't anyone making a well funded Matrix Vive game? More Matrix movies is a bit like making more Viewmaster film circles. The tech, culture, and innovation have moved on past movies when it comes to cyberpunky storytelling. I want a 3D vista that surrounds me, not crunching popcorn in a uncomfortable seat and staring at a wall while the people around me send text messages and make noise.

WorldMaker 10y ago
«Uh, what is this author railing against? A possibility that exists only in his head? Is there any evidence this is even in the cards?» Warner Brothers announced just recently that they had a script and a lead actor in mind. The Wachowskis are not involved at all (and can't possibly be, given their already full dance card with Sense8 and other projects). WB owns the rights out right after producer Joel Silver sold his majority share so they can pretty much do what they want. The scuttlebutt is that they want to full and completely reboot/remake the franchise, starting from square one, which presumably means a new Neo, Agent Smith, etc.

WorldMaker 10y ago

I am one of the very rare people that thinks the two sequels were better than the first film on every level, but I also hated the first film the first time I saw it. I'd also love to see the short film excised from Enter the Matrix and edited back into the sequels. I think there is room maybe even for some animated recap of important parts of The Matrix Online's story edited into a coda at the end of Revolutions...

goatlover 10y ago
I don't understand what's better about the sequels. Over the top CGI and action, overdoing the philosophical and religious mumbo jumbo, too much boring and confusing dialog, not following up on Neo's God-like resurrection at the end of the first where he was going to free the human race from the matrix in favor of deconstructing him and recasting him as recurring program. They were worse in virtually every way from the first, but to each his own, I guess.
- WorldMaker 10y ago
  The sequels had some better set pieces. Even though the CGI doesn't quite hold up, the Burly Brawl and the Freeway alone are better than anything in the first. Even the "war scenes" from Revolutions that a lot of people find boring/drag on are better action pieces. But the big reason I like the sequels more than the first is the "overdoing the philosophical and religious mumbo jumbo" and the "too much boring and confusing dialog". While I will admit the scenes could be better written, I hated how seriously the first movie seemed to take its philosophy and religious mumbo jumbo, and the sequels go out of the way to overdo it and over-explain it seemingly precisely because it isn't actually that serious (it's a set of control systems and metaphors spiraled out of control, just like you would expect from a computer system; it's more like the real world than Tron in this where program names get picked out of a hat from old legends and ancient deities and broken metaphors) and doesn't really mean anything and is almost entirely broken (by design). That's essentially the point of the much maligned Architect scenery chewing, but I think the Cake and Limbo scenes better articulate it. The sequels even mostly agree that the "battery problem" is a problem and probably a lie. It's a complaint I have with the Animatrix that it takes the battery thing seriously, whereas the sequels seem to hint that even that is a lie the machines spread to control and confuse. (Then again, from the view of the sequels, the Animatrix is likely legends, folklore, and propaganda.)

pasbesoin 10y ago

They remade "Point Break". (Said remake I am not going to watch.) They're remaking "The Matrix". ... Wait, someone is trying to erase Keanu Reeves! Clever, Agent Smith! Hat tip... P.S. (I'm clearly never going to watch the eventual remake of "Lake House"...)

krapp 10y ago

Even though, at this point it's so well known that it's cliche, I hope they actually go through with the (rumored but non-canon) premise that Zion itself is just another level of the Matrix. I always liked the idea of undermining the typical cyberpunk trope of "jacking in to VR" and liberating oneself from the control of the system, when there's no reason for the Machines to ever allow humans to actually leave the Matrix. If they dispense with the "humans as batteries" rationale for the Matrix altogether, which they should because it was a condescending cop-out on the original premise that the Matrix was using human brains to bootstrap its AI, there's no reason humans should even have physical bodies to escape to, or for the Machines to exist as anything more than software. Everything should just be ever more intricate levels of control, the characters should never even see the real world. Or, even better, we never know if they do or not.

Sarkie 10y ago
Yeah I wanted exactly this, The Matrix and Zion was another layer, and Neo was only one who could penetrate the final layer. Hence he could affect stuff in the "real world" as it was still in a machine and was still running through another algorithm, and to balance the equation was for that particular version of it. I wanted to call the final film Matrix : Revelations. Where the final layer was the whole world used VR under one Skynet/i, robot style thing maybe, and one day it went rogue but couldn't kill per se, and if anyone ever managed to get out of the VR world, they'd realise it had gone rogue and turn it off, so it had to keep inventing new layers and things to keep people connected and stop them wanting to figuring out how to wake up. I feel that'd be a nice ending, can mix in Skynet, Inception, Matrix, Surrogates and fixes a lot of issues I had with the trilogy and could still have Keanu,and could even have different Matrices distributed throughout the world, managing to hack into the other ones to get a decent ending.