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Ah the Guardian. Never missing a trick to slyly insert some anti-Brexit propaganda in unrelated stories: But her kingdom is in turmoil, and her subjects are in

Ah the Guardian. Never missing a trick to slyly insert some anti-Brexit propaganda in unrelated stories: But her kingdom is in turmoil, and her subjects are in denial that her reign will ever end Her kingdom is not in turmoil unless, I suppose, you work for the Guardian in which case the one-two punch of Labour's credibility collapse and Brexit mean you think the world is ending. But lots of people don't see that as turmoil at all.

lumisota 10y ago
The Scottish government is seeking a second independence referendum, and Sinn Féin (Irish republican party) has gained its highest vote share in Northern Ireland -- is this not a kingdom in turmoil?
- zigzigzag 10y ago
  No, not really. Sturgeon has to demand a second, and a third and a fourth referendum whenever she can as she defines herself as "independence or out" and that's what her most loyal supporters demand. But it's unlikely such a rerun would happen for several years, and things might be quite different by then. I guess it also depends on if you see devolution as turmoil. I wouldn't consider an independent Scotland or leaving the EU as "turmoil" - just a rearrangement of politics to be more local, which is likely good in the long run.
  - lumisota 10y ago
    If "kingdom" in your Guardian quote refers to the United Kingdom, then it is surely in turmoil when a non-trivial number of people (say ~50% in Scotland, ~25% in Northern Ireland) don't wish to be a part of it.
    - zigzigzag 10y ago
      44% in Scotland and not much appetite for a rerun according to the polls. But I suppose if you want to define it that way, you can, as long as you're consistent: by that definition virtually all of Europe is in turmoil (well, the EU). Not sure people living there would recognise the description though. Things feel quite calm really.
      - lumisota 10y ago
        I don't mean (and I don't read from the Guardian quote) that the people are in turmoil; but the institutions we're talking about (the UK and the EU) are.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
pjc50 10y ago
People who can spot easily foreseeable problems - an essential hacker skill - know turmoil when they see it coming. The big question is the 3.3 million EU citizens in the UK; the government has repeatedly refused to guarantee their right to stay, while also making statements that they're willing to drop out of any dealmaking process with the EU. The outcome of those policies would be that 5% of the population suddenly become illegal immigrants and their employers are legally obliged to fire them and the Home Office will start deporting them. This is going to be a mess. There may be riots. Not to mention that all sorts of UK-EU scientific collaboration which operates on 3 or 5 year timescales has already suffered, because they can't plan beyond Brexit day.

lumisota 10y ago

The Scottish government is seeking a second independence referendum, and Sinn Féin (Irish republican party) has gained its highest vote share in Northern Ireland -- is this not a kingdom in turmoil?

zigzigzag 10y ago
No, not really. Sturgeon has to demand a second, and a third and a fourth referendum whenever she can as she defines herself as "independence or out" and that's what her most loyal supporters demand. But it's unlikely such a rerun would happen for several years, and things might be quite different by then. I guess it also depends on if you see devolution as turmoil. I wouldn't consider an independent Scotland or leaving the EU as "turmoil" - just a rearrangement of politics to be more local, which is likely good in the long run.
- lumisota 10y ago
  If "kingdom" in your Guardian quote refers to the United Kingdom, then it is surely in turmoil when a non-trivial number of people (say ~50% in Scotland, ~25% in Northern Ireland) don't wish to be a part of it.
  - zigzigzag 10y ago
    44% in Scotland and not much appetite for a rerun according to the polls. But I suppose if you want to define it that way, you can, as long as you're consistent: by that definition virtually all of Europe is in turmoil (well, the EU). Not sure people living there would recognise the description though. Things feel quite calm really.
    - lumisota 10y ago
      I don't mean (and I don't read from the Guardian quote) that the people are in turmoil; but the institutions we're talking about (the UK and the EU) are.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]

pjc50 10y ago

People who can spot easily foreseeable problems - an essential hacker skill - know turmoil when they see it coming. The big question is the 3.3 million EU citizens in the UK; the government has repeatedly refused to guarantee their right to stay, while also making statements that they're willing to drop out of any dealmaking process with the EU. The outcome of those policies would be that 5% of the population suddenly become illegal immigrants and their employers are legally obliged to fire them and the Home Office will start deporting them. This is going to be a mess. There may be riots. Not to mention that all sorts of UK-EU scientific collaboration which operates on 3 or 5 year timescales has already suffered, because they can't plan beyond Brexit day.