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I understand that and agree 100%. However, what I was trying to say is that for a non-technical person who is trying to understand a concept rather than solving

I understand that and agree 100%. However, what I was trying to say is that for a non-technical person who is trying to understand a concept rather than solving a problem, accuracy is not the main concern. Sometimes you just need to understand the line of reasoning "roughly speaking". and as I said at the end, I understand that this is a set of M.SC. exam question and my issue is not with this pdf specifically. Take the problem of Integer Factorization, something that I have personally been fascinated by for years. The problem is so ridiculously simple that a 5 year old could understand it. With that said, google for a few wikipedia articles and see the notation and the way it is presented. The non-mathematician does not care about difference of squares or triangular numbers or what.have.you. It seems to be the case that mathematicians are unable to talk about math without requiring the person they are talking to to have extensive knowledge of the topic. That's IMO why Carl Sagan and Feynman were so great. They could take complex problems and reduce them (read communicate) in a good way that most could understand and reason about without needing to traverse the entirety of the knowledge pyramid. Similarly, that is what Numberphile does so well.

blahblah3 10y ago
My suggestion would be to slow down when reading math or about math. Let's take Wikipedia's integer factorization for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integer_factorization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integer_factorization First paragraph is: "In number theory, integer factorization is the decomposition of a composite number into a product of smaller integers. If these integers are further restricted to prime numbers, the process is called prime factorization." This is a clear and precise statement of the problem. There are some key words that one might need to look up which takes time, but that's what I mean by slowing down.
- demonshalo 10y ago
  Be kind and do this for me: Think of yourself as Sara, an average person in society. Put yourself in her shoes. Now click on the following link and scroll down for a bit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factorization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factorization Scroll as slowly as you want/can. Tell me, do you think that this is a good way to communicate to Sara why this problem is of importance? or even better, do you think Sara will ever give a shit if all she can see is that? If you want to promote a more scientifically literate society, you should not try to render every single person into a scientists. Rather, try introducing scientific thinking into people's every day lives. The only way that will happen is if those who know the sciences learn to communicate better with the rest of us and help us get it into our daily lives. can you see where I am coming from? I am not annoyed by math or my ignorance toward the topic. I am trying my best to combat it. But the problem I often encounter is that those who know/can rarely speak the same language as those who cannot. Khan Academy grew big because he knew how to communicate, more people should be like him imo.
  - sammoth 10y ago
    All your examples of the problem you are talking about are from Wikipedia, but you give multiple examples in your posts of explanations of maths done the right way. Feynman, Khan Academy, Project Euler. So I guess some maths related text is written one way and some is written another way?
    - demonshalo 10y ago
      Sure. But I hope that you can see how little access the average person have to mathematical concepts unless he/she have had years of formal training. Khan academy, Numberphiles and the likes have done wonders for lots of us out here. But it is still not enough and more needs to be done. Especially when talking about concepts that are new or truths that we constantly "take for granted".
      - sammoth 10y ago
        But is Khan Academy really so different to formal training? I mean, who is going to understand a Khan Academy video on solutions to 2nd order linear homogeneous differential equations if they have never learned any algebra? There is language in there that is necessary to explain it that they will have had to learn before. It would be great for there to be more resources for learning maths outside being officially enrolled in formal education, but I don't think this has anything to do with the language used in mathematics being too terse or obtuse. Lots of good undergrad textbooks are no less understandable than a Khan Academy video, try those instead of Wikipedia.
  - hyperpallium 10y ago
    I think an aspect of the problem is that wikipedia has become a highly technical reference rather than a traditional encyclopedia for a layperson to educate themselves. e.g. Articles often swamp the basic idea with myriad qualifications and connections to other topics. There's demand for both levels. I'd also like a wikitorial or wikixtbook... taking a layperson through to solid understanding but I suppose something like Khan is what's needed for that role. BTW I've found wolfram often better than wikipedia for maths topics.
zodiac 10y ago
Wikipedia isn't really meant for introductory articles

blahblah3 10y ago

My suggestion would be to slow down when reading math or about math. Let's take Wikipedia's integer factorization for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integer_factorization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integer_factorization First paragraph is: "In number theory, integer factorization is the decomposition of a composite number into a product of smaller integers. If these integers are further restricted to prime numbers, the process is called prime factorization." This is a clear and precise statement of the problem. There are some key words that one might need to look up which takes time, but that's what I mean by slowing down.

demonshalo 10y ago
Be kind and do this for me: Think of yourself as Sara, an average person in society. Put yourself in her shoes. Now click on the following link and scroll down for a bit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factorization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factorization Scroll as slowly as you want/can. Tell me, do you think that this is a good way to communicate to Sara why this problem is of importance? or even better, do you think Sara will ever give a shit if all she can see is that? If you want to promote a more scientifically literate society, you should not try to render every single person into a scientists. Rather, try introducing scientific thinking into people's every day lives. The only way that will happen is if those who know the sciences learn to communicate better with the rest of us and help us get it into our daily lives. can you see where I am coming from? I am not annoyed by math or my ignorance toward the topic. I am trying my best to combat it. But the problem I often encounter is that those who know/can rarely speak the same language as those who cannot. Khan Academy grew big because he knew how to communicate, more people should be like him imo.
- sammoth 10y ago
  All your examples of the problem you are talking about are from Wikipedia, but you give multiple examples in your posts of explanations of maths done the right way. Feynman, Khan Academy, Project Euler. So I guess some maths related text is written one way and some is written another way?
  - demonshalo 10y ago
    Sure. But I hope that you can see how little access the average person have to mathematical concepts unless he/she have had years of formal training. Khan academy, Numberphiles and the likes have done wonders for lots of us out here. But it is still not enough and more needs to be done. Especially when talking about concepts that are new or truths that we constantly "take for granted".
    - sammoth 10y ago
      But is Khan Academy really so different to formal training? I mean, who is going to understand a Khan Academy video on solutions to 2nd order linear homogeneous differential equations if they have never learned any algebra? There is language in there that is necessary to explain it that they will have had to learn before. It would be great for there to be more resources for learning maths outside being officially enrolled in formal education, but I don't think this has anything to do with the language used in mathematics being too terse or obtuse. Lots of good undergrad textbooks are no less understandable than a Khan Academy video, try those instead of Wikipedia.
- hyperpallium 10y ago
  I think an aspect of the problem is that wikipedia has become a highly technical reference rather than a traditional encyclopedia for a layperson to educate themselves. e.g. Articles often swamp the basic idea with myriad qualifications and connections to other topics. There's demand for both levels. I'd also like a wikitorial or wikixtbook... taking a layperson through to solid understanding but I suppose something like Khan is what's needed for that role. BTW I've found wolfram often better than wikipedia for maths topics.

zodiac 10y ago

Wikipedia isn't really meant for introductory articles