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Exactly. As a non-American tipping seems like such a crappy concept to me. Why should service providers be subject to arbitrary decisions of random customers?
by borplk 10y ago
Exactly. As a non-American tipping seems like such a crappy concept to me.
Why should service providers be subject to arbitrary decisions of random customers?
A service has a price. Either it is provided adequately and you are happy with it in which case you pay the full damn price for it and move on with your life.
Or there's a specific problem in which case you can complain specifically and ask for a discount or refund/partial refund.
From a business perspective tipping can also be seen as an admission of failure and weakness. In the sense that the business is admitting that the quality of the service is so variable that it calls for a variable judgement of its value. Like maybe you get a crappy waiter and you don't tip, maybe you get an excellent one and now you must leave a good tip.
It is also "lazy" because it dumps the responsibility to the consumer. "Just judge how well we do and tip accordingly".
Instead as a consumer I want to have certainty and confidence that a given service provided by a business has a predictable and consistent level of quality.
And also as a consumer I want the employees to not be subject to my arbitrary personal judgement on a day to day basis. If there's a particular problem I may complain, otherwise just move on with your life.
- nailer 10y agoAs a non American, for jobs where the service makes a significant difference, a service charge or tips seems reasonable. I live in London. I generally pay the service charge. Once out of every hundred times I eat out, I ask them to remove the service charge as I spent ten minutes trying to get someone's attention to order, rather than talk to my dining companions. Service doesn't make a huge different for transport though. It's either on time, clean, and takes proper route or not.
- italicbold 10y agopro tip: in london the service charge rarely goes to staff. service charge is not the same thing as a tip, which should usually be cash if you wish it to go to the waiter.
- collyw 10y agoSo is it obligatory to pay the service charge? If not, then I would prefer to deduct it and offer the same amount as a tip.
- tim333 10y agoYou can do that but it's a faff. I often think I should but don't get around to it. You are not legally obliged to pay the service charge in the UK at any rate.
- nailer 10y agoDepends on the place. You can always ask staff if the service charge goes to them or is taken by management.
- alias_neo 10y agoLondon here; You can ask, but on several occasions I've had them indicate they're not allowed to answer the question. Absolutely bullshit behaviour from an employer and in which case I'll insist it's removed and give the waiter/waitress cash.
- crottypeter 10y agoI usually get the service taken off the bill and leave slightly more in cash. (Even if the server says, "it's okay, we get the service charge").
- Ntrails 10y agoI don't know that to be generally true based on both my experience in the industry and those people I know still in it. There were certainly places I worked where any credit card tips were declared for tax whilst cash tips weren't. This is one reason why staff preferred cash. Similarly in some places cash was distributed by shift whereas cards were distributed monthly based on hours worked. As a final point, the idea of tipping the person directly is not consistent with anywhere i've ever worked. Even when distributing at the end of a shift, everyone would have put tips in the jar to be shared between staff.
- mattmanser 10y agoWhen you think about it a bit more it doesn't actually seem reasonable. What shop do you know of where they'll let you choose food, take a bite and then pay what you feel it's worth? Hmm, this donut's a bit stale, I'm not prepared to pay anything for it thanks Mr.Tesco. Sometimes I buy fruit and it goes bad too fast. That's life. Sometimes you get a shitty waiter, that's life, but now you get to unilaterally decide you'll get that service for free? Because there's a significant minority of people who will always find fault just so that they don't have to pay.
- nailer 10y ago>> for jobs where the service makes a significant difference > this donut's a bit stale, I'm not prepared to pay anything for it thanks Mr.Tesco. This is irrelevant. See quote from comment you're replying to. > Sometimes you get a shitty waiter, that's life, but now you get to unilaterally decide you'll get that service for free? No, the waiter still gets paid.
- totony 10y agoWhen you eat out and get shit food, there is a bone or something in your food, you usually can just tell them and they'll do something so you don't pay the full amount, it's common courtesy.
- anexprogrammer 10y ago> Hmm, this donut's a bit stale, I'm not prepared to pay anything for it thanks Mr.Tesco. You go to the customer service desk, say "This doughnut is stale" show your receipt along with the partly eaten doughnut, then get a full refund or exchange as you prefer. If you're doing it daily the rules will change. :)
- Larrikin 10y agoYour examples are not very good. Most grocery stores will let you take back bad produce within a reasonable amount of time. I've gotten burned a few times when buying bags of things like potatoes and onions and not seeing a bad one in the middle that had started to infect the others. Never had a problem returning. Aldi even gives money back plus a new item
- dcosson 10y ago> for jobs where the service makes a significant difference, a service charge or tips seems reasonable. I'm skeptical of even that. There are lots of jobs with a large range of quality in industries with no tipping, and the market ends up working fine as a way for the best to rise to the top. You wouldn't tip your lawyer or a freelance developer. Why are some industries different?
- nkrisc 10y agoA lot of Americans, myself included, think it's a crappy concept too.
- Taylor_OD 10y agoIt's frustrating because everyone has different concepts of what a "good" tip is as well. I tip well now but it's mostly because I'm overcompensating for years of under tipping after getting advice from high school friends or cheap adults. However it's often just not clear enough what to give.
- elif 10y agothe percentage method is bad in my opinion. the most expensive cuisine typically hire more affluent staff and pay them more to begin with. Personally I go with a $5 minimum, more if I am a bother or there for over an hour. Though, this makes me look like a jerk when people drag me to fancy restaurants, and a saint at coffee/fast food places.
- matt_wulfeck 10y agoUltimately it doesn't matter how you tip unless you frequent the restaurant. Your service will be a result of the people who looked you and came in before. So white, wealthy looking people will generally get better service by virtue of being white and wealthy looking. Doesn't matter if they skimp on the tip. It's very racist and classist in practice.