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Do you believe that in Australia and Europe, restaurants and taxis are non functional because they don't have tipping? I've eaten out hundreds of times in my

Do you believe that in Australia and Europe, restaurants and taxis are non functional because they don't have tipping? I've eaten out hundreds of times in my life, never left a tip, and never thought I needed an incentive system directly between me and the waiter. Same with taxis. There are only so many ways to screw up bringing food to a table. I've never once though "wow that waiter really brought my plate to me badly". Why not apply your logic to everything? Why not change hairdressing to a tip system? Why not surgery? Why not painting and building? You'll get better service, right?

prawn 10y ago
I believe they do tip their hairdressers in the US. Rest of the argument stands though, and I agree with you.
- seanp2k2 10y ago
  Hairdressers, massage places (the fancy ones (e.g. resort spas) give you an envelope which explains tipping for foreign travelers), sometimes auto mechanics, maître d's (fancy restaurants get expensive when you have to tip the person who sat you, the waiter, the chef, and the sommelier), valets, parking garages where they park your car since it's so tight that all the cars are in a grid (common in e.g. SF), bell persons, hotel rooms (customary to leave some cash on the dresser, again fancier places usually have an envelope explaining it), pit bosses at casinos (you're buying favor), baggage handlers at the airport, gardeners / pool cleaners, repair persons in some cases... Yeah, it's crazy and dumb and not changing drastically any time soon.
  - kelnos 10y ago
    I'm actually having a hard time thinking of any service job in the US where it's not customary (and/or expected) to tip.
    - nommm-nommm 10y ago
      Fast food, cafeteria staff, receptionist, fast casual (Chipotle-like places), coffee shop (this is debatable), tech support, cable repair person, salesman, public bus driver, any cashier, bagger, phone support, librarian. It's so arbitrary though, order a Pepsi from McDonald's no tip, order a Pepsi from a pub, $1 tip minimum. Tip the person who hands you a bottle of beer but not the person who makes your sandwich. (Self serve soda machines are common now in fast food, but when I worked at McDonald's we poured the soda, no machines, and no tips)
      - prawn 10y ago
        "It's so arbitrary though, order a Pepsi from McDonald's no tip, order a Pepsi from a pub, $1 tip minimum. Tip the person who hands you a bottle of beer but not the person who makes your sandwich." As an outsider, it's all quite insane especially when the baseline isn't 0% but more like 15% for default service in many situations. Or a $1 tip for something ridiculously basic at a bar like getting post-mix soda or uncapping a bottle of beer as you said.
        nommm-nommm 10y ago
        Especially a bodega/deli sandwich maker. Making a sandwich is just as labor intensive as making a cocktail. I load up my sandwiches with at least 10 ingredients (lettuce, tomato, onions, spinach, peppers, banana peppers, olives, salt, pepper, mayo,... Whatever they have!) and the average cocktail has, like, 3-4 ingredients? And it's certainly more labor intensive than carrying a plate.
      - kelnos 10y ago
        Ok, my imagination clearly failed me on this one! Though I usually do tip at fast food or fast casual (if there's a tip jar or a spot on the CC receipt), and always tip at a coffee shop. But the others, yeah... spot on. The beverage pouring thing is especially insane; I'd never thought about that before. At a bar I'll usually tip 20% for a cocktail, but only 10% or so if I'm poured a beer or soft drink. But even that 10% is crazy when you wouldn't tip a fast-food cashier for pouring you a soda.
kaybe 10y ago
In Germany at least, it is common to round up. Probably because we like paying with cash, since it's just less of a hassle if the price is odd. Round up to the next full Euro, or the next 5/10€ if it's close/you're feeling generous/don't like coins. AFAIK this is a common mode for the other European countries as well.
zapu 10y ago
View on Europe on HN seems to be a little skewed. We have tipping here as well, maybe not to the same extent as in US, but it's definitely present. Even sandwich or coffee places would have "tip jar" where people would drop their change when they pay cash, but it's not required or even expected. It's not like there is no concept of tipping at all.
- kelnos 10y ago
  Sure, but that's still drastically different than in the US. With little exception, you're expected to pay an 18-20% tip just for the base level of service. Paying less than 15% -- even for mediocre or poor service -- is considered cheap and shameful. To compare apples to apples, in a sandwich/coffee place in the US you're still expected to tip the standard amount, even if your change from a cash payment falls short. And not tipping at all in those situations is considered bad form. I'd say the European system is far preferable, but I like Japan the best: a taxi driver would be nearly offended if you tried to tip them. I had one get out of the car and nearly chase me down because I got out before taking my 30 yen in change. Just charge what it costs to provide a living wage and don't require or expect a tip, ever. Remove the social stigma associated with being cheap for not tipping. In the US, eliminate the comically-low minimum wage for tipped staff, and make them pay the regular minimum wage. To ease the transition, reduce payroll taxes for such businesses (tips aren't subject to payroll taxes) so they don't have to jack up prices 30+% to compensate. I know this will never happen here, but I can hope...
  - zapu 10y ago
    Thank you, I've just realized how... different (to not say "awful"...) it is in US after reading more comments here. To be honest sometimes I'm anxious when my bill ends up some number that's hard to tip from; but if I don't tip, nothing will happen.
    - kelnos 10y ago
      My thanks for being polite, but I think "awful" is a perfectly reasonable and accurate term for the state of affairs here :(

prawn 10y ago

I believe they do tip their hairdressers in the US. Rest of the argument stands though, and I agree with you.

seanp2k2 10y ago
Hairdressers, massage places (the fancy ones (e.g. resort spas) give you an envelope which explains tipping for foreign travelers), sometimes auto mechanics, maître d's (fancy restaurants get expensive when you have to tip the person who sat you, the waiter, the chef, and the sommelier), valets, parking garages where they park your car since it's so tight that all the cars are in a grid (common in e.g. SF), bell persons, hotel rooms (customary to leave some cash on the dresser, again fancier places usually have an envelope explaining it), pit bosses at casinos (you're buying favor), baggage handlers at the airport, gardeners / pool cleaners, repair persons in some cases... Yeah, it's crazy and dumb and not changing drastically any time soon.
- kelnos 10y ago
  I'm actually having a hard time thinking of any service job in the US where it's not customary (and/or expected) to tip.
  - nommm-nommm 10y ago
    Fast food, cafeteria staff, receptionist, fast casual (Chipotle-like places), coffee shop (this is debatable), tech support, cable repair person, salesman, public bus driver, any cashier, bagger, phone support, librarian. It's so arbitrary though, order a Pepsi from McDonald's no tip, order a Pepsi from a pub, $1 tip minimum. Tip the person who hands you a bottle of beer but not the person who makes your sandwich. (Self serve soda machines are common now in fast food, but when I worked at McDonald's we poured the soda, no machines, and no tips)
    - prawn 10y ago
      "It's so arbitrary though, order a Pepsi from McDonald's no tip, order a Pepsi from a pub, $1 tip minimum. Tip the person who hands you a bottle of beer but not the person who makes your sandwich." As an outsider, it's all quite insane especially when the baseline isn't 0% but more like 15% for default service in many situations. Or a $1 tip for something ridiculously basic at a bar like getting post-mix soda or uncapping a bottle of beer as you said.
      - nommm-nommm 10y ago
        Especially a bodega/deli sandwich maker. Making a sandwich is just as labor intensive as making a cocktail. I load up my sandwiches with at least 10 ingredients (lettuce, tomato, onions, spinach, peppers, banana peppers, olives, salt, pepper, mayo,... Whatever they have!) and the average cocktail has, like, 3-4 ingredients? And it's certainly more labor intensive than carrying a plate.
    - kelnos 10y ago
      Ok, my imagination clearly failed me on this one! Though I usually do tip at fast food or fast casual (if there's a tip jar or a spot on the CC receipt), and always tip at a coffee shop. But the others, yeah... spot on. The beverage pouring thing is especially insane; I'd never thought about that before. At a bar I'll usually tip 20% for a cocktail, but only 10% or so if I'm poured a beer or soft drink. But even that 10% is crazy when you wouldn't tip a fast-food cashier for pouring you a soda.

kaybe 10y ago

In Germany at least, it is common to round up. Probably because we like paying with cash, since it's just less of a hassle if the price is odd. Round up to the next full Euro, or the next 5/10€ if it's close/you're feeling generous/don't like coins. AFAIK this is a common mode for the other European countries as well.

zapu 10y ago

View on Europe on HN seems to be a little skewed. We have tipping here as well, maybe not to the same extent as in US, but it's definitely present. Even sandwich or coffee places would have "tip jar" where people would drop their change when they pay cash, but it's not required or even expected. It's not like there is no concept of tipping at all.

kelnos 10y ago
Sure, but that's still drastically different than in the US. With little exception, you're expected to pay an 18-20% tip just for the base level of service. Paying less than 15% -- even for mediocre or poor service -- is considered cheap and shameful. To compare apples to apples, in a sandwich/coffee place in the US you're still expected to tip the standard amount, even if your change from a cash payment falls short. And not tipping at all in those situations is considered bad form. I'd say the European system is far preferable, but I like Japan the best: a taxi driver would be nearly offended if you tried to tip them. I had one get out of the car and nearly chase me down because I got out before taking my 30 yen in change. Just charge what it costs to provide a living wage and don't require or expect a tip, ever. Remove the social stigma associated with being cheap for not tipping. In the US, eliminate the comically-low minimum wage for tipped staff, and make them pay the regular minimum wage. To ease the transition, reduce payroll taxes for such businesses (tips aren't subject to payroll taxes) so they don't have to jack up prices 30+% to compensate. I know this will never happen here, but I can hope...
- zapu 10y ago
  Thank you, I've just realized how... different (to not say "awful"...) it is in US after reading more comments here. To be honest sometimes I'm anxious when my bill ends up some number that's hard to tip from; but if I don't tip, nothing will happen.
  - kelnos 10y ago
    My thanks for being polite, but I think "awful" is a perfectly reasonable and accurate term for the state of affairs here :(