5 ms·

Is good service and hospitably an antiquated notion? I'll happily give a bartender, server or a driver an extra buck or two when they make the experience pleas

by walru 10y ago

Is good service and hospitably an antiquated notion? I'll happily give a bartender, server or a driver an extra buck or two when they make the experience pleasant/informative/friendly because, far too many people treat their jobs not as a privileged but a chore. Without tipping far too many would take your money for granted and the quality of service would decline across the board because there is zero incentive to provide anything better.

techsupporter 10y ago
> Without tipping far too many would take your money for granted and the quality of service would decline across the board because there is zero incentive to provide anything better. I don't mean to sound flippant but, have you ever been to Europe? I've traveled to Germany, Ireland, Finland, and Iceland multiple times. None of those countries has a tipping culture and the service I receive, even at your basic fast food restaurant, is the same or better than in the States. I must ask, why do you believe your statement to be true?
- zedadex 10y ago
  Possibly a cultural affect though? His statement could be true for the american context. In a capitalism steeped melting pot, it does seem like things that might be more commonly 'seen'/appreciated in other cultures - pride in one's work, common standards of politeness, sense of serving/interacting with 'your community' rather than just 'anonymous strangers from other communities' - that could be non-financial motivators for good service elsewhere that are simply missing or too few & far between here.
  - ClassyJacket 10y ago
    I don't buy this old "It works everywhere else but magically won't work in America" excuse. I've seen you guys use this one for healthcare, too. I assure you that Australia and Europe are also capitalism-steeped melting ppls.
- morsch 10y ago
  In Germany a 5-10% tip is customary in (non-self-serve) restaurants and bars. I usually tip taxi drivers about the same percentage, not sure if everyone does it.
cortesoft 10y ago
Sadly, tip amount is not correlated very strongly with good service. No matter how good of service a person provides, they aren't going to change how much they are tipped very much. Since this is the case, it is unlikely quality of service is going to go way down because of no tips. http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2015/10/psychological-case-against-tipping.html http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2015/10/psychological-case-agai...
SilasX 10y ago
In some cases, that makes sense, or at least, enough sense that I can see "reasonable people disagree..." there. In other cases, I just want a ride home. I don't care about being regaled with tales, or how hyperoptimized the route is, or fake friendliness, or even refreshments. I just want to know, unambiguously, what it takes to satisfy my obligation for this specific service, and reasonably expect that the provider is on the same page. Uber wanted to create a special zone for exactly this, and make expectations as clear as possible for everyone going in, and yet that still isn't good enough for many people. (Though, FWIW, I think they also abused their position by driving rates insanely low.)
- kelnos 10y ago
  Yeah, and that's the thing. I think Uber started off with a great idea: eliminate tipping for a job where tipping is the norm. But then they failed to fix the reason for tipping these days: paying the usually-tipped person a living wage.
ClassyJacket 10y ago
Do you believe that in Australia and Europe, restaurants and taxis are non functional because they don't have tipping? I've eaten out hundreds of times in my life, never left a tip, and never thought I needed an incentive system directly between me and the waiter. Same with taxis. There are only so many ways to screw up bringing food to a table. I've never once though "wow that waiter really brought my plate to me badly". Why not apply your logic to everything? Why not change hairdressing to a tip system? Why not surgery? Why not painting and building? You'll get better service, right?
- prawn 10y ago
  I believe they do tip their hairdressers in the US. Rest of the argument stands though, and I agree with you.
  - seanp2k2 10y ago
    Hairdressers, massage places (the fancy ones (e.g. resort spas) give you an envelope which explains tipping for foreign travelers), sometimes auto mechanics, maître d's (fancy restaurants get expensive when you have to tip the person who sat you, the waiter, the chef, and the sommelier), valets, parking garages where they park your car since it's so tight that all the cars are in a grid (common in e.g. SF), bell persons, hotel rooms (customary to leave some cash on the dresser, again fancier places usually have an envelope explaining it), pit bosses at casinos (you're buying favor), baggage handlers at the airport, gardeners / pool cleaners, repair persons in some cases... Yeah, it's crazy and dumb and not changing drastically any time soon.
    - kelnos 10y ago
      I'm actually having a hard time thinking of any service job in the US where it's not customary (and/or expected) to tip.
      - nommm-nommm 10y ago
        Fast food, cafeteria staff, receptionist, fast casual (Chipotle-like places), coffee shop (this is debatable), tech support, cable repair person, salesman, public bus driver, any cashier, bagger, phone support, librarian. It's so arbitrary though, order a Pepsi from McDonald's no tip, order a Pepsi from a pub, $1 tip minimum. Tip the person who hands you a bottle of beer but not the person who makes your sandwich. (Self serve soda machines are common now in fast food, but when I worked at McDonald's we poured the soda, no machines, and no tips)
olalonde 10y ago
In my limited experience with no tipping cultures (China), quality of service is actually better on average than in the US/Canada.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
jachee 10y ago
> Is good service and hospitably an antiquated notion? No, good service and hospitality are literally what your base wage should cover. If your service job doesn't pay well enough to for you to provide good service and/or be a decent human being, perhaps you should seek out a less service-oriented job.
nommm-nommm 10y ago
Bringing you a plate of spaghetti is a privilege? I think you need a reality check.

by walru 10y ago

techsupporter 10y ago

> Without tipping far too many would take your money for granted and the quality of service would decline across the board because there is zero incentive to provide anything better. I don't mean to sound flippant but, have you ever been to Europe? I've traveled to Germany, Ireland, Finland, and Iceland multiple times. None of those countries has a tipping culture and the service I receive, even at your basic fast food restaurant, is the same or better than in the States. I must ask, why do you believe your statement to be true?

zedadex 10y ago
Possibly a cultural affect though? His statement could be true for the american context. In a capitalism steeped melting pot, it does seem like things that might be more commonly 'seen'/appreciated in other cultures - pride in one's work, common standards of politeness, sense of serving/interacting with 'your community' rather than just 'anonymous strangers from other communities' - that could be non-financial motivators for good service elsewhere that are simply missing or too few & far between here.
- ClassyJacket 10y ago
  I don't buy this old "It works everywhere else but magically won't work in America" excuse. I've seen you guys use this one for healthcare, too. I assure you that Australia and Europe are also capitalism-steeped melting ppls.
morsch 10y ago
In Germany a 5-10% tip is customary in (non-self-serve) restaurants and bars. I usually tip taxi drivers about the same percentage, not sure if everyone does it.

cortesoft 10y ago

Sadly, tip amount is not correlated very strongly with good service. No matter how good of service a person provides, they aren't going to change how much they are tipped very much. Since this is the case, it is unlikely quality of service is going to go way down because of no tips. http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2015/10/psychological-case-against-tipping.html http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2015/10/psychological-case-agai...

SilasX 10y ago

In some cases, that makes sense, or at least, enough sense that I can see "reasonable people disagree..." there. In other cases, I just want a ride home. I don't care about being regaled with tales, or how hyperoptimized the route is, or fake friendliness, or even refreshments. I just want to know, unambiguously, what it takes to satisfy my obligation for this specific service, and reasonably expect that the provider is on the same page. Uber wanted to create a special zone for exactly this, and make expectations as clear as possible for everyone going in, and yet that still isn't good enough for many people. (Though, FWIW, I think they also abused their position by driving rates insanely low.)

kelnos 10y ago
Yeah, and that's the thing. I think Uber started off with a great idea: eliminate tipping for a job where tipping is the norm. But then they failed to fix the reason for tipping these days: paying the usually-tipped person a living wage.

ClassyJacket 10y ago

Do you believe that in Australia and Europe, restaurants and taxis are non functional because they don't have tipping? I've eaten out hundreds of times in my life, never left a tip, and never thought I needed an incentive system directly between me and the waiter. Same with taxis. There are only so many ways to screw up bringing food to a table. I've never once though "wow that waiter really brought my plate to me badly". Why not apply your logic to everything? Why not change hairdressing to a tip system? Why not surgery? Why not painting and building? You'll get better service, right?

prawn 10y ago
I believe they do tip their hairdressers in the US. Rest of the argument stands though, and I agree with you.
- seanp2k2 10y ago
  Hairdressers, massage places (the fancy ones (e.g. resort spas) give you an envelope which explains tipping for foreign travelers), sometimes auto mechanics, maître d's (fancy restaurants get expensive when you have to tip the person who sat you, the waiter, the chef, and the sommelier), valets, parking garages where they park your car since it's so tight that all the cars are in a grid (common in e.g. SF), bell persons, hotel rooms (customary to leave some cash on the dresser, again fancier places usually have an envelope explaining it), pit bosses at casinos (you're buying favor), baggage handlers at the airport, gardeners / pool cleaners, repair persons in some cases... Yeah, it's crazy and dumb and not changing drastically any time soon.
  - kelnos 10y ago
    I'm actually having a hard time thinking of any service job in the US where it's not customary (and/or expected) to tip.
    - nommm-nommm 10y ago
      Fast food, cafeteria staff, receptionist, fast casual (Chipotle-like places), coffee shop (this is debatable), tech support, cable repair person, salesman, public bus driver, any cashier, bagger, phone support, librarian. It's so arbitrary though, order a Pepsi from McDonald's no tip, order a Pepsi from a pub, $1 tip minimum. Tip the person who hands you a bottle of beer but not the person who makes your sandwich. (Self serve soda machines are common now in fast food, but when I worked at McDonald's we poured the soda, no machines, and no tips)

olalonde 10y ago

In my limited experience with no tipping cultures (China), quality of service is actually better on average than in the US/Canada.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

jachee 10y ago

> Is good service and hospitably an antiquated notion? No, good service and hospitality are literally what your base wage should cover. If your service job doesn't pay well enough to for you to provide good service and/or be a decent human being, perhaps you should seek out a less service-oriented job.

nommm-nommm 10y ago

Bringing you a plate of spaghetti is a privilege? I think you need a reality check.