4 ms·

If Americans would stop tipping then the current wages would become untenable and the restaurants and bars would lose staff. They would need to increase wages (

If Americans would stop tipping then the current wages would become untenable and the restaurants and bars would lose staff. They would need to increase wages (and prices) accordingly. This is something the American people have the power to change without legislation.

arebop 10y ago
In a sense you are right, but practically speaking individuals can't morally unilaterally defect from tipping. When nearly everyone agrees that 15% is the tip for normal performance, and one person leaves 0% for normal performance, that one person is free-riding and effectively hurting an innocent victim. One practical solution would be to close the minimum wage loophole for tipped employees. The difference between the two minima is the presumptive value of the normal tip, so this is a means by which you can coordinate an instant and universal change from relying on tips to having no reliance on tips. It's not exactly ideal, given that everyone knows waiters typically make a lot more in tips and evaded tax than that difference, but it is at least consistent and nominally fair. I am not sure what other practical solutions you might have in mind.
- cortesoft 10y ago
  I saw your reply right after I made mine... finally someone else who understands the problem of collective action!
cortesoft 10y ago
How would they organize that sort of collective action? There are lots of people already who don't tip, but it hasn't changed anything. I can't control what the guy next to me does, only what I do. If I stop tipping, it only hurts the person serving me - it doesn't change the tipping culture. I always find these sorts of arguments vexing - people act as if we can just 'decide' as a society to change something, and it is that simple. I can't 'decide' for society to do anything, unless we organize, coerce, and perhaps legislate.
deathhand 10y ago
America also pioneered the term 'unions'. The collective bargaining of those people has been lost for quite some time.
untog 10y ago
Sure, but in that window of time people who like paycheck to paycheck will suffer a sudden loss of income and likely slide into poverty. Which is why we take proactive political action. At least in theory, anyway.

arebop 10y ago

In a sense you are right, but practically speaking individuals can't morally unilaterally defect from tipping. When nearly everyone agrees that 15% is the tip for normal performance, and one person leaves 0% for normal performance, that one person is free-riding and effectively hurting an innocent victim. One practical solution would be to close the minimum wage loophole for tipped employees. The difference between the two minima is the presumptive value of the normal tip, so this is a means by which you can coordinate an instant and universal change from relying on tips to having no reliance on tips. It's not exactly ideal, given that everyone knows waiters typically make a lot more in tips and evaded tax than that difference, but it is at least consistent and nominally fair. I am not sure what other practical solutions you might have in mind.

cortesoft 10y ago
I saw your reply right after I made mine... finally someone else who understands the problem of collective action!

cortesoft 10y ago

How would they organize that sort of collective action? There are lots of people already who don't tip, but it hasn't changed anything. I can't control what the guy next to me does, only what I do. If I stop tipping, it only hurts the person serving me - it doesn't change the tipping culture. I always find these sorts of arguments vexing - people act as if we can just 'decide' as a society to change something, and it is that simple. I can't 'decide' for society to do anything, unless we organize, coerce, and perhaps legislate.

deathhand 10y ago

America also pioneered the term 'unions'. The collective bargaining of those people has been lost for quite some time.

untog 10y ago

Sure, but in that window of time people who like paycheck to paycheck will suffer a sudden loss of income and likely slide into poverty. Which is why we take proactive political action. At least in theory, anyway.