5 ms·

Thanks! As long as I stayed with that employer for longer than a year I would be fine, or would the period of job-hopping look bad permanently?

joss82 10y ago
I don't really know how things are in the US, but here in Europe, the employer's need for a developer will often overcome his fear of hiring a "job hopper". Be ready to answer questions about the reason why you quit your jobs, though. Just telling the truth is usually enough. "The commute was too much", "I was not growing/learning any more"...
headcanon 10y ago
I don't think job hopping is as big a deal in software as it is for other industries - a new job every 2 years seems typical for many, but less than a year wouldn't get looked down upon, especially if you cite a "toxic environment" as the reason you quit. 6 jobs in a year (that aren't contracts) would be a red flag, but one or two isn't really a problem IMO. Demand is too high.
- colmvp 10y ago
  I've never agreed with the angst towards 'reasonable' job hopping. We all recognize that interviews and research of a company can only take you so far in truly determining fit (on both sides) within an organization. There are also variables within the company that can change that are completely out of your control, such as leadership, company strategy, or team composition. And there are also cases where a company promises a certain role or duty, the candidate joins, and then they aren't doing what they thought they'd be doing.
  - gtirloni 10y ago
    The ability of the hiring company to determine any of these situations is minimal though. Those trying to play safe will make assumptions, unfortunately.
thoughtpalette 10y ago
I've job hopped quite a bit (7 times in 6 years). There's plenty of valid reasons to leave a job, most of my moves have been due to skill stagnation at a certain company. Also, increases in salary is ridiculous when switching. If you stay at a single job you run the risk of stagnating your salary as well. If you can articulate to the company your reasoning behind switching jobs, and why you're genuinely interested in the company and the value you bring, I believe you'll be alright. Has yet to bite me in the ass (Chicago) and the experience you gain between companies (small-large, workflows/methodologies, stacks, etc) is priceless.
- scarface74 10y ago
  I've got to disagree. I've job hopped over the past 8 years - 4 full time jobs and one short term contract. I would think two years is the minimum unless you were a contractor or were laid off. I'm at a point now where I need to stick around a job for at least three years.
  - thoughtpalette 10y ago
    What's the reasoning behind your disagreement? Have you noticed any skepticism while interviewing? I do believe 2 years is a great norm, 1 year for getting up to date, 1 year for giving the company a chance. But, we're in high-demand (mostly) and if you don't feel comfortable at a company, life's short, not worth staying imo. I'd also like to point out, while I have a great track record of interviewing, it seems (pointing to the quantity of positions I've held) that I need to do a _much_ better job of asking questions about the company in the interview phase itself. While I do feel stuck at my new job (2 mos), I have a different approach mentally for keeping myself happy. It's all contextual/anecdotal to the person involved. Though I'll tell you, my mother is always worried about the short-term positions. Just for a personal reference.
    - scarface74 10y ago
      For the first time, the last time I looked for a job, people started asking questions. I consider myself a great interviewer --the last time I looked I got no rejections, two offers, and 8-10 other positions I withdrew from the process after accepting an offer. As far as asking questions. I use a modified version of the Joel Test:https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/08/09/the-joel-test-12-steps-to-better-code/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/08/09/the-joel-test-12-s... Basically, getting rid of the last 2 questions and asking about automated testing, code reviews, continuous integration, etc. I always of course ask about the technology stack and the amount of autonomy developers have.
tomca32 10y ago
Job hoping is nowhere near as bad a signal in tech as it is in other industries. I would even go so far to say that some job hoping is expected as long as you don't go overboard. If you stayed at one job for less than a year, nobody will notice or care. If you stay for 6 months at three consecutive jobs, then you might get a question about that.
thehardsphere 10y ago
Any job you stay less than two years at is going to look funny and require some sort of explanation. If you're at a job for less than six months, the assumption people will make is that you and the company were a bad fit. "Bad fit" can be interpreted as "applicant was incompetent and hired by mistake" so, having your own explanation about why you were a bad fit helps. Maybe you don't even list this job on your resume. If you're at a job for less than a year, then the assumption people could make is that you got a bad first performance review, and you're changing jobs now instead of getting fired later. If you've been at a job for at least two years, then people will assume your performance has been reviewed at least twice and that if you were actually bad, you would have been fired.
cardine 10y ago
I'm going to disagree with a lot of the other responses you are receiving. If it happens once or twice and there is a good story/explanation that goes along with it that is fine, but I actively avoid candidates who switch jobs every year or so. In my opinion it takes a decent amount of time to understand everything within any given company or codebase (especially one that has a decent level of complexity or specialized knowledge). I don't want an unstable environment where people are leaving just as they begin to fully understand things to the point where they are extremely productive. Along those same lines I think it is the responsibility of an employer to give raises that are equivalent to the salaries they would pay to poach people with a similar level of experience. If you are willing to give someone a significant raise to leave their current company you should be willing to do that for someone within your own company.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  > Along those same lines I think it is the responsibility of an employer to give raises that are equivalent to the salaries they would pay to poach people with a similar level of experience. If you are willing to give someone a significant raise to leave their current company you should be willing to do that for someone within your own company. What would you say is a reasonable amount of time for an employee to stick around if an employer isn't providing pay increases?
  - scarface74 10y ago
    What would you say is a reasonable amount of time for an employee to stick around if an employer isn't providing pay increases? Two years. If you came in at market value, the median market value shouldn't increase that much. Two years is also about the time to get enough experience to "level up"
    - toomuchtodo 10y ago
      Appreciate it!
- joss82 10y ago
btilly 10y ago
As a friend who is a recruiter explained it to me, candidates who have a history of job hopping WILL get the question in the interview and MUST have a reasonable answer for it. Assuming that you pass that formality, the question doesn't seem to affect anyone's actual decisions afterwards. (Even though people may claim otherwise.)

joss82 10y ago

I don't really know how things are in the US, but here in Europe, the employer's need for a developer will often overcome his fear of hiring a "job hopper". Be ready to answer questions about the reason why you quit your jobs, though. Just telling the truth is usually enough. "The commute was too much", "I was not growing/learning any more"...

headcanon 10y ago

I don't think job hopping is as big a deal in software as it is for other industries - a new job every 2 years seems typical for many, but less than a year wouldn't get looked down upon, especially if you cite a "toxic environment" as the reason you quit. 6 jobs in a year (that aren't contracts) would be a red flag, but one or two isn't really a problem IMO. Demand is too high.

colmvp 10y ago
I've never agreed with the angst towards 'reasonable' job hopping. We all recognize that interviews and research of a company can only take you so far in truly determining fit (on both sides) within an organization. There are also variables within the company that can change that are completely out of your control, such as leadership, company strategy, or team composition. And there are also cases where a company promises a certain role or duty, the candidate joins, and then they aren't doing what they thought they'd be doing.
- gtirloni 10y ago
  The ability of the hiring company to determine any of these situations is minimal though. Those trying to play safe will make assumptions, unfortunately.

thoughtpalette 10y ago

I've job hopped quite a bit (7 times in 6 years). There's plenty of valid reasons to leave a job, most of my moves have been due to skill stagnation at a certain company. Also, increases in salary is ridiculous when switching. If you stay at a single job you run the risk of stagnating your salary as well. If you can articulate to the company your reasoning behind switching jobs, and why you're genuinely interested in the company and the value you bring, I believe you'll be alright. Has yet to bite me in the ass (Chicago) and the experience you gain between companies (small-large, workflows/methodologies, stacks, etc) is priceless.

scarface74 10y ago
I've got to disagree. I've job hopped over the past 8 years - 4 full time jobs and one short term contract. I would think two years is the minimum unless you were a contractor or were laid off. I'm at a point now where I need to stick around a job for at least three years.
- thoughtpalette 10y ago
  What's the reasoning behind your disagreement? Have you noticed any skepticism while interviewing? I do believe 2 years is a great norm, 1 year for getting up to date, 1 year for giving the company a chance. But, we're in high-demand (mostly) and if you don't feel comfortable at a company, life's short, not worth staying imo. I'd also like to point out, while I have a great track record of interviewing, it seems (pointing to the quantity of positions I've held) that I need to do a _much_ better job of asking questions about the company in the interview phase itself. While I do feel stuck at my new job (2 mos), I have a different approach mentally for keeping myself happy. It's all contextual/anecdotal to the person involved. Though I'll tell you, my mother is always worried about the short-term positions. Just for a personal reference.
  - scarface74 10y ago
    For the first time, the last time I looked for a job, people started asking questions. I consider myself a great interviewer --the last time I looked I got no rejections, two offers, and 8-10 other positions I withdrew from the process after accepting an offer. As far as asking questions. I use a modified version of the Joel Test:https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/08/09/the-joel-test-12-steps-to-better-code/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/08/09/the-joel-test-12-s... Basically, getting rid of the last 2 questions and asking about automated testing, code reviews, continuous integration, etc. I always of course ask about the technology stack and the amount of autonomy developers have.

tomca32 10y ago

Job hoping is nowhere near as bad a signal in tech as it is in other industries. I would even go so far to say that some job hoping is expected as long as you don't go overboard. If you stayed at one job for less than a year, nobody will notice or care. If you stay for 6 months at three consecutive jobs, then you might get a question about that.

thehardsphere 10y ago

Any job you stay less than two years at is going to look funny and require some sort of explanation. If you're at a job for less than six months, the assumption people will make is that you and the company were a bad fit. "Bad fit" can be interpreted as "applicant was incompetent and hired by mistake" so, having your own explanation about why you were a bad fit helps. Maybe you don't even list this job on your resume. If you're at a job for less than a year, then the assumption people could make is that you got a bad first performance review, and you're changing jobs now instead of getting fired later. If you've been at a job for at least two years, then people will assume your performance has been reviewed at least twice and that if you were actually bad, you would have been fired.

cardine 10y ago

I'm going to disagree with a lot of the other responses you are receiving. If it happens once or twice and there is a good story/explanation that goes along with it that is fine, but I actively avoid candidates who switch jobs every year or so. In my opinion it takes a decent amount of time to understand everything within any given company or codebase (especially one that has a decent level of complexity or specialized knowledge). I don't want an unstable environment where people are leaving just as they begin to fully understand things to the point where they are extremely productive. Along those same lines I think it is the responsibility of an employer to give raises that are equivalent to the salaries they would pay to poach people with a similar level of experience. If you are willing to give someone a significant raise to leave their current company you should be willing to do that for someone within your own company.

toomuchtodo 10y ago
> Along those same lines I think it is the responsibility of an employer to give raises that are equivalent to the salaries they would pay to poach people with a similar level of experience. If you are willing to give someone a significant raise to leave their current company you should be willing to do that for someone within your own company. What would you say is a reasonable amount of time for an employee to stick around if an employer isn't providing pay increases?
- scarface74 10y ago
  What would you say is a reasonable amount of time for an employee to stick around if an employer isn't providing pay increases? Two years. If you came in at market value, the median market value shouldn't increase that much. Two years is also about the time to get enough experience to "level up"
  - toomuchtodo 10y ago
    Appreciate it!
joss82 10y ago

btilly 10y ago

As a friend who is a recruiter explained it to me, candidates who have a history of job hopping WILL get the question in the interview and MUST have a reasonable answer for it. Assuming that you pass that formality, the question doesn't seem to affect anyone's actual decisions afterwards. (Even though people may claim otherwise.)