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Serious question, is there anything driving mobile robotics research besides the defense dept? I spent my grad school time in a robotics lab and it always bumm

Serious question, is there anything driving mobile robotics research besides the defense dept? I spent my grad school time in a robotics lab and it always bummed me out that anytime you see something amazing like this it's invariable funded by a military research agency which can't wait to strap a gun to the damned thing. Same thing for computer vision, except it was all about surveillance.

starkfist 16y ago
In the USA, no, not really.
- blhack 16y ago
  So where is this different? And how? Who is funding this outside of the US and for what?
  - erik 16y ago
    Apparently a lot of robotics work in Japan is aimed at assisting the elderly and making up for labor shortages.
    - patio11 16y ago
      Common topics here include assisting the elderly, industrial automation, disaster response, (minorly) entertainment, (minorly) consumer goods, and one other application area I studiously ignored because smart foreigners have no opinions about Article 9. There were a couple of interesting discussions at the prefectural technology incubator about possible applications for research which was in the news at the time. It was a (very early prototype of a) man-portable cloaking device. Clearly, we decided, it was destined for the Tokyo fashion scene.
  - starkfist 16y ago
    The japanese do a lot of robot research and AFAIK most of it is not military. I'm not sure if the non-military clause in their constitution means they can't do military research.
    - smallblacksun 16y ago
      The Japanese have a fairly large and technically advanced military, they just call it a "self-defense force". They can and do carry out military research.
  - thu 16y ago
    In Japan, they'd like to use robots for earthquake rescue.
    - smallblacksun 16y ago
      The US has similar research: http://www.aaai.org/Pressroom/Releases/release-02-0910.php http://www.aaai.org/Pressroom/Releases/release-02-0910.php
  - chancho 16y ago
    Robotics research in Japan is primarily aimed at defending against giant space monster invasion. Oh wait, I guess that falls under defense.
    - stretchwithme 16y ago
      you'd be all paranoid too if godzilla kept invading.
  - edave 16y ago
    Ironically, it's the civilian sector that's limiting this research to the DoD. The FAA has very strict regulations on flying autonomous drones outdoors (basically, you're not allowed to do it), so this has seriously hobbled a lot of research into UAVs, etc. Israel, Canada, Western Europe and other places are far ahead now in terms of commercial autonomous drones.
lucifer 16y ago
We geeks are the enablers of the upcoming Techno-Police State. Fully responsible.
yesbabyyes 16y ago
I thought about this for a while a couple of months ago and wrote down my thoughts on war, robots & culture here: http://linusthiel.posterous.com/about-war http://linusthiel.posterous.com/about-war
pgbovine 16y ago
this doesn't answer your question at all, but it's just food for thought: imagine we traveled back in time to the 1960's ... i suppose that people would ask "Serious question, is there anything driving reliable robust nationwide packet-switched data network research besides the defense dept? it always bummed me out that anytime you see something amazing it's inevitably funded by military which can't wait to use it to plan and coordinate military strikes against the soviets and to plan for some ridiculous doomsday nuclear holocaust that might never come" ... without huge amounts of DARPA funding throughout the 60's and 70's for the Internet, we'd all still be pen pals sending snail mail to one another ;)
- dschobel 16y ago
  Fair enough, but there's nothing overtly weaponizable about communication technology. Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled the money is there to advance the field, I just wish it wasn't coming from a bunch of dickheads trying to strap guns to it. I guess since the conventional wisdoms says pornography is the biggest catalyst for new media adoption, it shouldn't be a surprise that killing people drives the other engineering fields forward.
  - starkfist 16y ago
    You can also look at it from a different perspective: The market is a much harsher master when it comes to fiscal accountability. Stuff doesn't get funded unless it's going to make money. Military spending is a magical well of infinite money with little accountability. You can think up any project you want and get money to do it so long as you say you're going to strap a gun on your robot, or that the decentralized communication network is really to help survive a nuke attack. I used to work in bioinformatics and money from the typical funding sources was getting tight in the late 90s, early 00s. After 9/11, my department just recast every project as "terrorist bio-defense" and was financially refueled with defense money.
    - chancho 16y ago
      This is supposed to be a positive aspect of defense R&D spending?
metamemetics 16y ago
A lot of cognitive science (especially AI related) and cog psychology is DoD related as well. For FY2010 60% of the US governments total R&D spending is military 40% non-military.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- hassenben 16y ago
  Reference please?
  - metamemetics 16y ago
    http://budgetinsight.wordpress.com/2009/11/03/research-and-development-in-the-fy-2010-defense-budget/ http://budgetinsight.wordpress.com/2009/11/03/research-and-d... >Historically, between 50 and 60 percent of the federal R&D investment is made in defense. >[mentions the American Reinvestment and Recover Act]However, despite this shift in R&D investment priorities, defense R&D spending continues to outpace non-defense R&D spending by $20 billion. >For psychology claim, my own experience sry takes a while to respond with /noprocast on
drawkbox 16y ago
Everything good starts out for war, entertainment or porn. Later that technology benefits regular uses which become the mainstream. Throughout history all great minds and technological advances were close to defense development. This here internet is an example, GPS another. Good things come from war competition thats the rub.
- richardw 16y ago
  The Wright Brothers and Ford weren't doing it for any of those, and neither were the people who invented chocolate or GM rice. People researching the solar system aren't working for the defense industry. Many, many things originate outside of war, entertainment or porn.
  - protomyth 16y ago
    Using the Wright Brothers as an example might not be the best. They had a lot of dealing with US Army.
    - drawkbox 16y ago
      Some info on those deals: http://www.nasm.si.edu/wrightbrothers/age/1910/military.cfm http://www.nasm.si.edu/wrightbrothers/age/1910/military.cfm
  - drawkbox 16y ago
    It is forever intertwined. Ford was against financing war (but also supported Hitler), but the roads and interstates that made the car viable in the US was military driven by Eisenhower's interstate system (and the railroad monopolies). I agree things are made/innovated on outside of war, but somewhere along the line most technology is defense driven or funded. What was the Wright brothers invention used for first? Later came commercial flight. The solar system research is driven by science but the science programs are largely defense supported and dual purpose. For instance, many of the shuttle trips have a defense purpose or classified payloads. Even the trip to the Moon was for defense leverage on Earth. From Archimedes to Tesla to science and technology innovation today, most technological advances are closely linked to defense funding or war technology.
motters 16y ago
The "only funded by the military" gripe only applies to the US, and is a peculiarity of American culture. In other areas robotics research is funded by a lot of other organisations besides military ones.

starkfist 16y ago

In the USA, no, not really.

blhack 16y ago
So where is this different? And how? Who is funding this outside of the US and for what?
- erik 16y ago
  Apparently a lot of robotics work in Japan is aimed at assisting the elderly and making up for labor shortages.
  - patio11 16y ago
    Common topics here include assisting the elderly, industrial automation, disaster response, (minorly) entertainment, (minorly) consumer goods, and one other application area I studiously ignored because smart foreigners have no opinions about Article 9. There were a couple of interesting discussions at the prefectural technology incubator about possible applications for research which was in the news at the time. It was a (very early prototype of a) man-portable cloaking device. Clearly, we decided, it was destined for the Tokyo fashion scene.
- starkfist 16y ago
  The japanese do a lot of robot research and AFAIK most of it is not military. I'm not sure if the non-military clause in their constitution means they can't do military research.
  - smallblacksun 16y ago
    The Japanese have a fairly large and technically advanced military, they just call it a "self-defense force". They can and do carry out military research.
- thu 16y ago
  In Japan, they'd like to use robots for earthquake rescue.
  - smallblacksun 16y ago
    The US has similar research: http://www.aaai.org/Pressroom/Releases/release-02-0910.php http://www.aaai.org/Pressroom/Releases/release-02-0910.php
- chancho 16y ago
  Robotics research in Japan is primarily aimed at defending against giant space monster invasion. Oh wait, I guess that falls under defense.
  - stretchwithme 16y ago
    you'd be all paranoid too if godzilla kept invading.
- edave 16y ago
  Ironically, it's the civilian sector that's limiting this research to the DoD. The FAA has very strict regulations on flying autonomous drones outdoors (basically, you're not allowed to do it), so this has seriously hobbled a lot of research into UAVs, etc. Israel, Canada, Western Europe and other places are far ahead now in terms of commercial autonomous drones.

lucifer 16y ago

We geeks are the enablers of the upcoming Techno-Police State. Fully responsible.

yesbabyyes 16y ago

I thought about this for a while a couple of months ago and wrote down my thoughts on war, robots & culture here: http://linusthiel.posterous.com/about-war http://linusthiel.posterous.com/about-war

pgbovine 16y ago

this doesn't answer your question at all, but it's just food for thought: imagine we traveled back in time to the 1960's ... i suppose that people would ask "Serious question, is there anything driving reliable robust nationwide packet-switched data network research besides the defense dept? it always bummed me out that anytime you see something amazing it's inevitably funded by military which can't wait to use it to plan and coordinate military strikes against the soviets and to plan for some ridiculous doomsday nuclear holocaust that might never come" ... without huge amounts of DARPA funding throughout the 60's and 70's for the Internet, we'd all still be pen pals sending snail mail to one another ;)

dschobel 16y ago
Fair enough, but there's nothing overtly weaponizable about communication technology. Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled the money is there to advance the field, I just wish it wasn't coming from a bunch of dickheads trying to strap guns to it. I guess since the conventional wisdoms says pornography is the biggest catalyst for new media adoption, it shouldn't be a surprise that killing people drives the other engineering fields forward.
- starkfist 16y ago
  You can also look at it from a different perspective: The market is a much harsher master when it comes to fiscal accountability. Stuff doesn't get funded unless it's going to make money. Military spending is a magical well of infinite money with little accountability. You can think up any project you want and get money to do it so long as you say you're going to strap a gun on your robot, or that the decentralized communication network is really to help survive a nuke attack. I used to work in bioinformatics and money from the typical funding sources was getting tight in the late 90s, early 00s. After 9/11, my department just recast every project as "terrorist bio-defense" and was financially refueled with defense money.
  - chancho 16y ago
    This is supposed to be a positive aspect of defense R&D spending?

metamemetics 16y ago

A lot of cognitive science (especially AI related) and cog psychology is DoD related as well. For FY2010 60% of the US governments total R&D spending is military 40% non-military.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
hassenben 16y ago
Reference please?
- metamemetics 16y ago
  http://budgetinsight.wordpress.com/2009/11/03/research-and-development-in-the-fy-2010-defense-budget/ http://budgetinsight.wordpress.com/2009/11/03/research-and-d... >Historically, between 50 and 60 percent of the federal R&D investment is made in defense. >[mentions the American Reinvestment and Recover Act]However, despite this shift in R&D investment priorities, defense R&D spending continues to outpace non-defense R&D spending by $20 billion. >For psychology claim, my own experience sry takes a while to respond with /noprocast on

drawkbox 16y ago

Everything good starts out for war, entertainment or porn. Later that technology benefits regular uses which become the mainstream. Throughout history all great minds and technological advances were close to defense development. This here internet is an example, GPS another. Good things come from war competition thats the rub.

richardw 16y ago
The Wright Brothers and Ford weren't doing it for any of those, and neither were the people who invented chocolate or GM rice. People researching the solar system aren't working for the defense industry. Many, many things originate outside of war, entertainment or porn.
- protomyth 16y ago
  Using the Wright Brothers as an example might not be the best. They had a lot of dealing with US Army.
  - drawkbox 16y ago
    Some info on those deals: http://www.nasm.si.edu/wrightbrothers/age/1910/military.cfm http://www.nasm.si.edu/wrightbrothers/age/1910/military.cfm
- drawkbox 16y ago
  It is forever intertwined. Ford was against financing war (but also supported Hitler), but the roads and interstates that made the car viable in the US was military driven by Eisenhower's interstate system (and the railroad monopolies). I agree things are made/innovated on outside of war, but somewhere along the line most technology is defense driven or funded. What was the Wright brothers invention used for first? Later came commercial flight. The solar system research is driven by science but the science programs are largely defense supported and dual purpose. For instance, many of the shuttle trips have a defense purpose or classified payloads. Even the trip to the Moon was for defense leverage on Earth. From Archimedes to Tesla to science and technology innovation today, most technological advances are closely linked to defense funding or war technology.

motters 16y ago

The "only funded by the military" gripe only applies to the US, and is a peculiarity of American culture. In other areas robotics research is funded by a lot of other organisations besides military ones.