14 ms·

Monsanto have been very, very good at controlling the discussion regarding the negative impact their products have had on the world - they're very well known fo

by mmjaa 10y ago

Monsanto have been very, very good at controlling the discussion regarding the negative impact their products have had on the world - they're very well known for the investment made in astro-turfing various and sundry places that Monsantos' crimes are discussed. I think that, besides the obvious corruption that these court documents reveal, another conversation has to be had about how disingenuous Monsanto and its agents have been in discussing these things - using classic deflection, obfuscation techniques online. The "Monsanto Field Manual for Internet Representatives" would be a very interesting leak indeed ..

jessaustin 10y ago
This is an interesting comment on HN, where the most vociferous defenders of Monsanto are high-karma accounts rather than sockpuppet greenbeans. Are you saying they've been influenced by such techniques in other fora?
- RodericDay 10y ago
  I would say so. In a world in which being against corporations is increasingly seen as "passé", defending Monsanto is just the edgiest possible position for someone looking to have the hottest take. I'm very pro-GMO, but time and time again I see pro-GMO people taunt and belittle anti-GMO people as mean-spirited tinfoil hatters who have zero reason to doubt Monsanto. It's very "Team Red" vs. "Team Blue", and unproductive.
  - ethbro 10y ago
    The pro/anti GMO has too little science in the debate imho. I take the Nye position: from a "people starving" vs "GMO boosted yields" perspective, I take GMOs. On "Monsanto, etc make too much money", I realize that creating new strains is hard and expensive. But. That's not to say I'll defend all their practices (like this one) or will not admit the anti-GMO crowd has some very valid points.
    - RodericDay 10y ago
      My favorite and most effective pro-GMO take is to talk to people about how cheese is made. Many anti-GMO people are concerned with animal welfare and love cheese, and it's important to make them realize that it's thanks to GMO that you can have cheese without slaughtering a calf. https://io9.gizmodo.com/you-can-thank-genetic-engineering-for-your-delicious-ch-1701156684 https://io9.gizmodo.com/you-can-thank-genetic-engineering-fo...
      - camiller 10y ago
        Interesting, I am/was of the understanding that there are also vegetarian rennet's made by extracting enzymes from certain plants; fig, thistle, etc. The place where I buy my cheese making supplies (well, would buy if the first attempt hadn't been such a disaster) has both calf and "vegetarian" rennet available for the home cheese maker.
        rosser 10y ago
        "Vegetarian cheese". That's cute. Sure, baby cows aren't being (literally) gutted for the lining of their stomachs, but that's hardly the extent of the misery we inflict upon dairy animals. EDIT: not directed at you. Just entertained at the semantic hoops people will set up and then jump through.
      - fdupoo 10y ago
        Sorry dude, don't see the connection. I am a predator. Predators kill prey animals, including (and sometimes especially) the babies. Cheese is delicious. Im anti-GMO and have been killing animals for food since I was 3. GMO and monsanto practices are health issues. The pesticides are a problem in terms of chemical pollution. As for gene editing, it's a question of polluting the gene pool of a life system. Releasing Gene-mod into a complex dynamic self-regulating self-propagating system is like modifying diseases them and releasing them into human society. It may not be a problem, but we can't know if it will be a problem till it's done, and once it's done, it's done. You can't remove or erase your mistakes. We cant know what any particular gene-mod will do in the wild, if it will be harmful or not, but we do know that monsanto and their cronies at the FDA and EPA don't give a flying fuck about systemic consequences of new technologies. We do know that the technology is potentially catastrophic, and there are a lot of disincentives to be responsible baked into the system of those holding the keys to this tech.
- mmjaa 10y ago
  Got some examples of high-karma, pro-Monsanto accounts? You don't have to be a sock-puppet to gain karma, nor have high-karma to be qualified as a sock-puppet, but you certainly can be, karma regardless.. (Plus, there's an easy solution to your supposition: Monsanto pays its people to establish reputation that can be utilised to forward Monsanto's positions...) Seriously though, who are you referring to? I'd be quite interested to know who the potential Monsanto sock-puppets are on HN.
  - saalweachter 10y ago
    I've historically defended glyphosate as a miracle herbicide on HN. At the end of the day, Monsanto is just a red herring. Besides just not being that significant - money-wise - in the food industry, glyphosate and the first generation glyphosate-resistant soybeans are no longer under patent. You can buy non-Roundup glyphosate and non-Roundup soybeans that do the same thing for a fraction of the price.
    - rch 10y ago
      But the point is to not buy or use them at all.
      - pkaye 10y ago
        What should we use instead for the times when a weed killer is necessary?
        elif 10y ago
        in japan, they put plastic bags on fruit on the vine/branch, but in the US that would require far more exploited immigrants, so that's not perfect either.
        mohaine 10y ago
        How does a plastic bag on fruit help kill weeds that are a completely separate plant?
- brokenmachine 10y ago
  Slightly off-topic, but do high-karma users comments automatically filter to the top? I assumed it was just the specific comment's karma that made it go to the top.
  - diogenescynic 10y ago
    Sort of. It also appears to be based on average comment score.
devoply 10y ago
Controlling the discussion would mean just P/R. This is unethical/bodering on illegal and it should be downright illegal with jail terms for execs when this sort of news comes out.

by mmjaa 10y ago

jessaustin 10y ago

This is an interesting comment on HN, where the most vociferous defenders of Monsanto are high-karma accounts rather than sockpuppet greenbeans. Are you saying they've been influenced by such techniques in other fora?

RodericDay 10y ago
I would say so. In a world in which being against corporations is increasingly seen as "passé", defending Monsanto is just the edgiest possible position for someone looking to have the hottest take. I'm very pro-GMO, but time and time again I see pro-GMO people taunt and belittle anti-GMO people as mean-spirited tinfoil hatters who have zero reason to doubt Monsanto. It's very "Team Red" vs. "Team Blue", and unproductive.
- ethbro 10y ago
  The pro/anti GMO has too little science in the debate imho. I take the Nye position: from a "people starving" vs "GMO boosted yields" perspective, I take GMOs. On "Monsanto, etc make too much money", I realize that creating new strains is hard and expensive. But. That's not to say I'll defend all their practices (like this one) or will not admit the anti-GMO crowd has some very valid points.
  - RodericDay 10y ago
    My favorite and most effective pro-GMO take is to talk to people about how cheese is made. Many anti-GMO people are concerned with animal welfare and love cheese, and it's important to make them realize that it's thanks to GMO that you can have cheese without slaughtering a calf. https://io9.gizmodo.com/you-can-thank-genetic-engineering-for-your-delicious-ch-1701156684 https://io9.gizmodo.com/you-can-thank-genetic-engineering-fo...
    - camiller 10y ago
      Interesting, I am/was of the understanding that there are also vegetarian rennet's made by extracting enzymes from certain plants; fig, thistle, etc. The place where I buy my cheese making supplies (well, would buy if the first attempt hadn't been such a disaster) has both calf and "vegetarian" rennet available for the home cheese maker.
      - rosser 10y ago
        "Vegetarian cheese". That's cute. Sure, baby cows aren't being (literally) gutted for the lining of their stomachs, but that's hardly the extent of the misery we inflict upon dairy animals. EDIT: not directed at you. Just entertained at the semantic hoops people will set up and then jump through.
    - fdupoo 10y ago
      Sorry dude, don't see the connection. I am a predator. Predators kill prey animals, including (and sometimes especially) the babies. Cheese is delicious. Im anti-GMO and have been killing animals for food since I was 3. GMO and monsanto practices are health issues. The pesticides are a problem in terms of chemical pollution. As for gene editing, it's a question of polluting the gene pool of a life system. Releasing Gene-mod into a complex dynamic self-regulating self-propagating system is like modifying diseases them and releasing them into human society. It may not be a problem, but we can't know if it will be a problem till it's done, and once it's done, it's done. You can't remove or erase your mistakes. We cant know what any particular gene-mod will do in the wild, if it will be harmful or not, but we do know that monsanto and their cronies at the FDA and EPA don't give a flying fuck about systemic consequences of new technologies. We do know that the technology is potentially catastrophic, and there are a lot of disincentives to be responsible baked into the system of those holding the keys to this tech.
mmjaa 10y ago
Got some examples of high-karma, pro-Monsanto accounts? You don't have to be a sock-puppet to gain karma, nor have high-karma to be qualified as a sock-puppet, but you certainly can be, karma regardless.. (Plus, there's an easy solution to your supposition: Monsanto pays its people to establish reputation that can be utilised to forward Monsanto's positions...) Seriously though, who are you referring to? I'd be quite interested to know who the potential Monsanto sock-puppets are on HN.
- saalweachter 10y ago
  I've historically defended glyphosate as a miracle herbicide on HN. At the end of the day, Monsanto is just a red herring. Besides just not being that significant - money-wise - in the food industry, glyphosate and the first generation glyphosate-resistant soybeans are no longer under patent. You can buy non-Roundup glyphosate and non-Roundup soybeans that do the same thing for a fraction of the price.
  - rch 10y ago
    But the point is to not buy or use them at all.
    - pkaye 10y ago
      What should we use instead for the times when a weed killer is necessary?
      - elif 10y ago
        in japan, they put plastic bags on fruit on the vine/branch, but in the US that would require far more exploited immigrants, so that's not perfect either.
        mohaine 10y ago
        How does a plastic bag on fruit help kill weeds that are a completely separate plant?
brokenmachine 10y ago
Slightly off-topic, but do high-karma users comments automatically filter to the top? I assumed it was just the specific comment's karma that made it go to the top.
- diogenescynic 10y ago
  Sort of. It also appears to be based on average comment score.

devoply 10y ago

Controlling the discussion would mean just P/R. This is unethical/bodering on illegal and it should be downright illegal with jail terms for execs when this sort of news comes out.