8 ms·

Glyphosate/Roundup is basically the amino acid glycine with a phosphorous structure tacked on [0]. Glycine is the simplest possible amino acid. [0] https://en.

Glyphosate/Roundup is basically the amino acid glycine with a phosphorous structure tacked on [0]. Glycine is the simplest possible amino acid. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyphosate#Chemistry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyphosate#Chemistry One theory is that glyphosate causes harm because it gets weaved into protein chains instead of glycine. Proteins made with roundup don't work the same as proteins with glycine. Experiments to figure out if this is what's happening would be relatively simple and cheap. Now that lots of weed are resistant, farmers will have to figure out how to farm without this shortcut. Roundup is obsolete, so nothing of value will be lost.

adsfqwop 10y ago
Anthony Samel, a chemist researching glyphosate, has already practically proven this weaving is happening. He is finding glyphosate in everything that has proteins in it. Especially things that contain gelatin, where gelatin is made out of animal collagen, and collagen is the most abundant protein in mammals. For example gummy bears, protein powders, nutritional supplements, and even in vaccines (several vaccines contain gelatin). So we are eating it, getting injected with it, and it is integrating into our own proteins as well.
- viraptor 10y ago
  The results are fairly easy to find on Google, but I'm disappointed how hard it could be for someone without academic experience to find reasonable summary. This news is a perfect mix of Monsanto, GMO, vaccines, and animal products. The amount baseless speculation is insane...
- 7sigma 10y ago
  You mean Anthony Samsel ? If so, he's known to have published shoddy research along with Seneff that makes wild claims about glyphosate being the cause of many ills like autism and celiac disease based on correlation and without much evidence Steven Novella thoroughly debunks this: http://sciencebasedmedicine.org/glyphosate-the-new-bogeyman/ http://sciencebasedmedicine.org/glyphosate-the-new-bogeyman/ Edit: spelling
  - adsfqwop 10y ago
    You do understand that there is a vast financial interest in "debunking" scientific findings like this? The first red flag that there are corporate interests behind any "debunking" effort is that an actually serious finding is not discussed openly, but various outlets immediately go for the discredit and debunk method. That's corporate modus operandi 101 for burying inconvenient people and data.
    - pessimizer 10y ago
      You shouldn't try to generally debunk debunking, becaust it's a completely irrational thing to do. Just explain where a specific criticism fails.
    - throwaway729 10y ago
      Except Novella's critique is entirely reasonable...
    - 7sigma 10y ago
      Maybe instead of being cynical about people's motives you should try to go through what they are saying and see if it makes sense or not, or if the evidence its based upon is correct. "The first red flag that there are corporate interests behind any "debunking" effort is that an actually serious finding is not discussed openly" So which finding was not discussed properly in the link i posted?
  - tcj_phx 10y ago
    Sometimes those writers have good points, sometimes they engage in propaganda campaigns to protect the medical guild's interests. For example, Hariett Hall is a regular defender science-free psychiatry. Psychiatric residents are trained to think that Wall Street's palliative patent medicines are useful, when the actual science has pointed at causes of many psychiatric disorders since the 1970's. The anti-psychiatry movement is about to reach a tipping point, /methinks, and the science based medicine folks will have some crow to eat.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
timlin 10y ago
> Now that lots of weed are resistant, farmers will have to figure out how to farm without > this shortcut. Roundup is obsolete, so nothing of value will be lost. I'm a part-time farmer. My father and I manage about 35 acres, half in corn and half in soybeans. We no-till our fields which is very helpful for preventing soil erosion and fertilizer/manure runoff. We are located in the Chesapeake Bay watershed so we have to (and want to) pay close attention to farming best practices regarding excess nutrients and runoff. We use Roundup for both a burn-down in the spring and for post-emerge weed management (1 quart to the acre). It continues to work well for us. Based on what I've heard, round-up resistant weeds mostly commonly occur in fields where crops are not rotated. Some farmers do plant corn on corn, year after year. I can see where that would lead to significant problems. So, I'd say that your unqualified statement above "roundup is obsolete" is true for me although it may be partially true depending on the application.
- teslabox 10y ago
  What could you grow in your area that isn't corn and soybeans [c&s]? How does the profitability of c&s compare to, say, silage? I was friends with a grass fed beef farmer in teh college, and learned from him that many weeds are actually a pretty good source of protein for cattle. Have you thought about farming fruit or trees? My grandmother was going to devote some of her acres (Illinois) to black walnut trees (iirc), but she'd moved away from her parents' farm in the 1940's and just managed it from afar after her parents passed away.
jcranmer 10y ago
I'm going to call bullshit on this. Look at the difference between glycine and alanine. Alanine is glycine with a methyl group attached. If the cellular polypeptide construction mechanisms have to be sensitive enough to distinguish between glycine and alanine in normal operation, then a phosphate sticking on the amine should be ringing alarm bells. Additionally, the reactivity of glyphosate should be rather changed. You're going from a primary amine to a secondary amine, one with a moderately steric hindrance on it (considering that the amine is the focal point of the polypeptide production reactions). It's no tert-butyl, but it's still hefty. (Note also that proline, the only amino acid with a secondary amine, is by far the slowest amino acid in peptide production).
- Florin_Andrei 10y ago
  Phosphate tends to be a pretty different animal from methyl.

adsfqwop 10y ago

Anthony Samel, a chemist researching glyphosate, has already practically proven this weaving is happening. He is finding glyphosate in everything that has proteins in it. Especially things that contain gelatin, where gelatin is made out of animal collagen, and collagen is the most abundant protein in mammals. For example gummy bears, protein powders, nutritional supplements, and even in vaccines (several vaccines contain gelatin). So we are eating it, getting injected with it, and it is integrating into our own proteins as well.

viraptor 10y ago
The results are fairly easy to find on Google, but I'm disappointed how hard it could be for someone without academic experience to find reasonable summary. This news is a perfect mix of Monsanto, GMO, vaccines, and animal products. The amount baseless speculation is insane...
7sigma 10y ago
You mean Anthony Samsel ? If so, he's known to have published shoddy research along with Seneff that makes wild claims about glyphosate being the cause of many ills like autism and celiac disease based on correlation and without much evidence Steven Novella thoroughly debunks this: http://sciencebasedmedicine.org/glyphosate-the-new-bogeyman/ http://sciencebasedmedicine.org/glyphosate-the-new-bogeyman/ Edit: spelling
- adsfqwop 10y ago
  You do understand that there is a vast financial interest in "debunking" scientific findings like this? The first red flag that there are corporate interests behind any "debunking" effort is that an actually serious finding is not discussed openly, but various outlets immediately go for the discredit and debunk method. That's corporate modus operandi 101 for burying inconvenient people and data.
  - pessimizer 10y ago
    You shouldn't try to generally debunk debunking, becaust it's a completely irrational thing to do. Just explain where a specific criticism fails.
  - throwaway729 10y ago
    Except Novella's critique is entirely reasonable...
  - 7sigma 10y ago
    Maybe instead of being cynical about people's motives you should try to go through what they are saying and see if it makes sense or not, or if the evidence its based upon is correct. "The first red flag that there are corporate interests behind any "debunking" effort is that an actually serious finding is not discussed openly" So which finding was not discussed properly in the link i posted?
- tcj_phx 10y ago
  Sometimes those writers have good points, sometimes they engage in propaganda campaigns to protect the medical guild's interests. For example, Hariett Hall is a regular defender science-free psychiatry. Psychiatric residents are trained to think that Wall Street's palliative patent medicines are useful, when the actual science has pointed at causes of many psychiatric disorders since the 1970's. The anti-psychiatry movement is about to reach a tipping point, /methinks, and the science based medicine folks will have some crow to eat.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

timlin 10y ago

> Now that lots of weed are resistant, farmers will have to figure out how to farm without > this shortcut. Roundup is obsolete, so nothing of value will be lost. I'm a part-time farmer. My father and I manage about 35 acres, half in corn and half in soybeans. We no-till our fields which is very helpful for preventing soil erosion and fertilizer/manure runoff. We are located in the Chesapeake Bay watershed so we have to (and want to) pay close attention to farming best practices regarding excess nutrients and runoff. We use Roundup for both a burn-down in the spring and for post-emerge weed management (1 quart to the acre). It continues to work well for us. Based on what I've heard, round-up resistant weeds mostly commonly occur in fields where crops are not rotated. Some farmers do plant corn on corn, year after year. I can see where that would lead to significant problems. So, I'd say that your unqualified statement above "roundup is obsolete" is true for me although it may be partially true depending on the application.

teslabox 10y ago
What could you grow in your area that isn't corn and soybeans [c&s]? How does the profitability of c&s compare to, say, silage? I was friends with a grass fed beef farmer in teh college, and learned from him that many weeds are actually a pretty good source of protein for cattle. Have you thought about farming fruit or trees? My grandmother was going to devote some of her acres (Illinois) to black walnut trees (iirc), but she'd moved away from her parents' farm in the 1940's and just managed it from afar after her parents passed away.

jcranmer 10y ago

I'm going to call bullshit on this. Look at the difference between glycine and alanine. Alanine is glycine with a methyl group attached. If the cellular polypeptide construction mechanisms have to be sensitive enough to distinguish between glycine and alanine in normal operation, then a phosphate sticking on the amine should be ringing alarm bells. Additionally, the reactivity of glyphosate should be rather changed. You're going from a primary amine to a secondary amine, one with a moderately steric hindrance on it (considering that the amine is the focal point of the polypeptide production reactions). It's no tert-butyl, but it's still hefty. (Note also that proline, the only amino acid with a secondary amine, is by far the slowest amino acid in peptide production).

Florin_Andrei 10y ago
Phosphate tends to be a pretty different animal from methyl.