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Could Student's Facebook Page Topple a Towing Company?

21 points by edw519 16y ago

patrickgzill 16y ago
Interesting that they claim they lost 10-15 good clients and the value of that business was $750,000 - meaning each client is (assuming similar size) worth up to $75K of business? How much are they towing each month?
- cwp 16y ago
  Good question. The article mentions that a single tow costs $118, so they're claiming to have lost more than 6000 tows. Even if they were really busy that would take a few years.
  - pkulak 16y ago
    Who said it was yearly? They are probably extending this over the projected life of the company.
  - what 16y ago
    I doubt it would take a few years to tow 6000 vehicles. They have more than 5 different kinds of trucks [1] and probably more than one of each. 6000 tows doesn't sound unreasonable for a ~4 month period, especially since they cover a pretty large area? [1] http://tjtowing.com/light_duty_trucks.php http://tjtowing.com/light_duty_trucks.php
    - patrickgzill 16y ago
      The URL you point to is for a company in MA, not MI. Not the same company - Joe Bird is the owner of the company in question, not (as on the URL you linked) Thomas Farber Sr.
      - what 16y ago
        Woops, don't I feel stupid now.
- tedunangst 16y ago
  "he estimated that the company would lose about $750,000" Future tense. They lost 15 clients so far, maybe they'll lose 30 in total. $750k is 62.5k per year over 20 years, or around 5k per month. Divided by 30 clients, that's $173 a month. So if 30 big clients who tow on average 1.5 cars a month quit, they lose 750k. The numbers are definitely pulled out of thin air, but they aren't completely preposterous.
JanezStupar 16y ago
How is their story even possible? They tow away wrongly parked cars right? So what either the people stopped doing parking violations or they had to cease defrauding the people. Or I'm to daft to understand?
- epochwolf 16y ago
  The person that set up the page is claiming the company is removing parking stickers from legally parked cars and then towing them.
  - steveklabnik 16y ago
    One of the reasons that this is possible is that towing companies are sort of like Judge Dredd; as far as I know, once your car ends up in the pound, there really isn't anything you can do. Technically, a towing company could just snag your car, say you were parked illegally, and you'd be screwed. Now, they don't do this because of the ramifications if they got caught. This sounds like a company that did it a small amount, got emboldened by their success, and then got caught. Of course, that's all just speculation, but it's plausible.
- tedunangst 16y ago
  (Guessing.) They have contracts with all the local parking lots to do the towing. Accusations of fraud mean the parking lot owners are using somebody else to do the towing now.
watty 16y ago
While this company sounds shady, I think this is a little over the top until someone catches them in the act. Doesn't everyone hate tow companies in college areas? "But claiming that the company scraped off the parking sticker" - seems like anyone could have taken his sticker off (or stolen it). I remember hearing on more than one occasion of stolen parking stickers at my school due to the ridiculous price. I'm not on the tow trucks companies side, I just think this is way blown out of proportion for a hunch.
- jcnnghm 16y ago
  I don't doubt their story at all. A few weeks ago my girlfriends car was legally parked and towed. I know that it was legally parked because the night before, I parked next to her and noticed that her parking pass was a different color than mine, so I made a note to ask her about it in my cell phone. The next day, the car was gone. The issue is, you are essentially powerless to do anything about it, except pay the extortion. I spoke with a police officer about it after I had to call them a week or so later about an unrelated matter, and he suggested that if something like that were to happen again, we should get an officer to come out and order the parking management company to have the vehicle returned. He said that he had the towing company in question tow a car back to where it was parked before, and did believe that they frequently tow legally parked vehicles in the area. Unfortunately, it could be very difficult (impossible?) to actually get an officer to come out, if the vehicle has been reported towed.
bmalicoat 16y ago
I wonder if this is the beginning of teens and 20-somethings realizing their Facebook (Twitter, etc.) postings can carry weight and bring real-world consequences. Creating a Facebook group out of frustration seems harmless enough but depending on the outcome here, it could prove to be a very big deal.
- alex_c 16y ago
  Judging by the number of "join this group to solve world peace" groups on Facebook, I think teens and 20-somethings vastly overestimate the real world consequences of their posts. Yes, they can be influential in specific cases, and maybe more effective than traditional means, but these are exceptions, not the rule.
  - zach 16y ago
    My favorite is the "I bet we can find 1,000,000 people" groups with 6,000 people in them. Anywhere else, 6,000 people supporting your cause would be a huge win, but they turn it into laughable defeat.
adammichaelc 16y ago
The lesson for the towing company and any other business is don't lie, don't cheat, don't steal, and don't be a jerk.
ShabbyDoo 16y ago
There must be some law specific to towing companies that allows them to take and impound vehicles from private property at the request of a non-governmental property owner. How else could it be legal to take another's property and hold it for ransom? If I open up a coffee shop and place a sign on the door stating that no laptop may be placed on a table for more than 15 minutes, I can't legally seize the laptop and demand a fee, can I?
- electromagnetic 16y ago
  If a person fails to pay for a long enough period and doesn't own over a certain percentage of the vehicle (say doesn't default on a last payment or something; depending on where you live, in ontario I believe it's under 3/4) the object legally becomes property of the person it's defaulted to and is considered temporary property of the towing/repo company. Repo companies have legal access to your property to remove it so long as they don't violate any law during the process. Trespassing doesn't count, because a gas man coming to check your meter isn't trespassing, if he breaks down your door then he's breaking and entering. Similarly a tow company only violates the law if they cut a lock or something illegal.
- xsmasher 16y ago
  Possession is nine points of the law, as they say. The property owner has every right to say who can and can not park there -- wouldn't you want that right as a property owner? Most municipalities have laws in place that regulate towing; an area must be posted, etc. etc. Those laws are more like restrictions on towing, not a grant of some special right. The right is already there.
hdx 16y ago
Luv it, I don't hate a lot of things but I absolutely HATE Tow Truck companies, in my area if your car gets towed on street cleaning day the fee is $230 + $90/Day! Their parking lot is about 1/2 mile from my street! And you still have to pay the parking ticket. Such a rip off.
mistermann 16y ago
This is an interesting story in that social media is giving consumers some leverage against companies that are running almost absolute monopolies. I don't know if this story is true or not, but the proliferation of video recorders on cell phones and things like this will, or should, cause a lot of laws to be rewritten. From what I've read of this story, a lot of people have complained about this company for these practices, and really, whats stopping them? IMHO, if they are caught doing this on video, they should be on probation, and if they are caught again, lights out.
MaysonL 16y ago
Lesson I took from this: tape your parking sticker inside the car, and take a picture of it.

21 points by edw519 16y ago

Interesting that they claim they lost 10-15 good clients and the value of that business was $750,000 - meaning each client is (assuming similar size) worth up to $75K of business? How much are they towing each month?

cwp 16y ago
Good question. The article mentions that a single tow costs $118, so they're claiming to have lost more than 6000 tows. Even if they were really busy that would take a few years.
- pkulak 16y ago
  Who said it was yearly? They are probably extending this over the projected life of the company.
- what 16y ago
  I doubt it would take a few years to tow 6000 vehicles. They have more than 5 different kinds of trucks [1] and probably more than one of each. 6000 tows doesn't sound unreasonable for a ~4 month period, especially since they cover a pretty large area? [1] http://tjtowing.com/light_duty_trucks.php http://tjtowing.com/light_duty_trucks.php
  - patrickgzill 16y ago
    The URL you point to is for a company in MA, not MI. Not the same company - Joe Bird is the owner of the company in question, not (as on the URL you linked) Thomas Farber Sr.
    - what 16y ago
      Woops, don't I feel stupid now.
tedunangst 16y ago
"he estimated that the company would lose about $750,000" Future tense. They lost 15 clients so far, maybe they'll lose 30 in total. $750k is 62.5k per year over 20 years, or around 5k per month. Divided by 30 clients, that's $173 a month. So if 30 big clients who tow on average 1.5 cars a month quit, they lose 750k. The numbers are definitely pulled out of thin air, but they aren't completely preposterous.

JanezStupar 16y ago

How is their story even possible? They tow away wrongly parked cars right? So what either the people stopped doing parking violations or they had to cease defrauding the people. Or I'm to daft to understand?

epochwolf 16y ago
The person that set up the page is claiming the company is removing parking stickers from legally parked cars and then towing them.
- steveklabnik 16y ago
  One of the reasons that this is possible is that towing companies are sort of like Judge Dredd; as far as I know, once your car ends up in the pound, there really isn't anything you can do. Technically, a towing company could just snag your car, say you were parked illegally, and you'd be screwed. Now, they don't do this because of the ramifications if they got caught. This sounds like a company that did it a small amount, got emboldened by their success, and then got caught. Of course, that's all just speculation, but it's plausible.
tedunangst 16y ago
(Guessing.) They have contracts with all the local parking lots to do the towing. Accusations of fraud mean the parking lot owners are using somebody else to do the towing now.

watty 16y ago

While this company sounds shady, I think this is a little over the top until someone catches them in the act. Doesn't everyone hate tow companies in college areas? "But claiming that the company scraped off the parking sticker" - seems like anyone could have taken his sticker off (or stolen it). I remember hearing on more than one occasion of stolen parking stickers at my school due to the ridiculous price. I'm not on the tow trucks companies side, I just think this is way blown out of proportion for a hunch.

jcnnghm 16y ago
I don't doubt their story at all. A few weeks ago my girlfriends car was legally parked and towed. I know that it was legally parked because the night before, I parked next to her and noticed that her parking pass was a different color than mine, so I made a note to ask her about it in my cell phone. The next day, the car was gone. The issue is, you are essentially powerless to do anything about it, except pay the extortion. I spoke with a police officer about it after I had to call them a week or so later about an unrelated matter, and he suggested that if something like that were to happen again, we should get an officer to come out and order the parking management company to have the vehicle returned. He said that he had the towing company in question tow a car back to where it was parked before, and did believe that they frequently tow legally parked vehicles in the area. Unfortunately, it could be very difficult (impossible?) to actually get an officer to come out, if the vehicle has been reported towed.

bmalicoat 16y ago

I wonder if this is the beginning of teens and 20-somethings realizing their Facebook (Twitter, etc.) postings can carry weight and bring real-world consequences. Creating a Facebook group out of frustration seems harmless enough but depending on the outcome here, it could prove to be a very big deal.

alex_c 16y ago
Judging by the number of "join this group to solve world peace" groups on Facebook, I think teens and 20-somethings vastly overestimate the real world consequences of their posts. Yes, they can be influential in specific cases, and maybe more effective than traditional means, but these are exceptions, not the rule.
- zach 16y ago
  My favorite is the "I bet we can find 1,000,000 people" groups with 6,000 people in them. Anywhere else, 6,000 people supporting your cause would be a huge win, but they turn it into laughable defeat.

adammichaelc 16y ago

The lesson for the towing company and any other business is don't lie, don't cheat, don't steal, and don't be a jerk.

ShabbyDoo 16y ago

There must be some law specific to towing companies that allows them to take and impound vehicles from private property at the request of a non-governmental property owner. How else could it be legal to take another's property and hold it for ransom? If I open up a coffee shop and place a sign on the door stating that no laptop may be placed on a table for more than 15 minutes, I can't legally seize the laptop and demand a fee, can I?

electromagnetic 16y ago
If a person fails to pay for a long enough period and doesn't own over a certain percentage of the vehicle (say doesn't default on a last payment or something; depending on where you live, in ontario I believe it's under 3/4) the object legally becomes property of the person it's defaulted to and is considered temporary property of the towing/repo company. Repo companies have legal access to your property to remove it so long as they don't violate any law during the process. Trespassing doesn't count, because a gas man coming to check your meter isn't trespassing, if he breaks down your door then he's breaking and entering. Similarly a tow company only violates the law if they cut a lock or something illegal.
xsmasher 16y ago
Possession is nine points of the law, as they say. The property owner has every right to say who can and can not park there -- wouldn't you want that right as a property owner? Most municipalities have laws in place that regulate towing; an area must be posted, etc. etc. Those laws are more like restrictions on towing, not a grant of some special right. The right is already there.

hdx 16y ago

Luv it, I don't hate a lot of things but I absolutely HATE Tow Truck companies, in my area if your car gets towed on street cleaning day the fee is $230 + $90/Day! Their parking lot is about 1/2 mile from my street! And you still have to pay the parking ticket. Such a rip off.

mistermann 16y ago

This is an interesting story in that social media is giving consumers some leverage against companies that are running almost absolute monopolies. I don't know if this story is true or not, but the proliferation of video recorders on cell phones and things like this will, or should, cause a lot of laws to be rewritten. From what I've read of this story, a lot of people have complained about this company for these practices, and really, whats stopping them? IMHO, if they are caught doing this on video, they should be on probation, and if they are caught again, lights out.

MaysonL 16y ago

Lesson I took from this: tape your parking sticker inside the car, and take a picture of it.