4 ms·

Engineers are aholes. How the negativity manifests itself is different between genders but the fact remains, Engineers are aholes. Nonstop, 24/7. As a software

by mybrid 10y ago

Engineers are aholes. How the negativity manifests itself is different between genders but the fact remains, Engineers are aholes. Nonstop, 24/7. As a software contractor I interview more than most I can tell interview horror stories that will peel paint. Has little to do with my gender though. Key man is common problem in the valley. Some person makes themselves a key man in the company and then reign down holy hell on everyone around them. This scenario plays out every day in Silicon Valley. The point is the problem is much larger than just how women are treated, but how people are treated. If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen is the mind set. Its a dog-eat-dog world and I'm wearing Milkbone shorts, as they comedian quipped. Root cause is not gender specific. Root cause is mean people in general. Mean people are going to be mean people, independent of gender. It doesn't help that Bill Gates, Steve Balmer, Bill Joy, Scott McNealy, Larry Elison, Steve Jobs are pretty much mean people role model CEOs people understand being mean as necessary. It would be interesting to redo this study and swap being mean for gender as the bias. I have no data but I suspect that being mean is a far bigger factor than gender bias. At a minimum being mean plays a large role and if addressing part of the root cause is not part of the solution then all of the bias related solutions are sure to fall short.

sudosteph 10y ago
If everyone was respectful then of course the problem would resolve itself. But imagining for a second that the story did somehow manage to get statistics and quantify the "mean"-ness of an individual, there would still be case for sexism being a factor that uniquely impacts women more negatively. For example, many people are somewhat "mean" but 1. Are these people only mean to women? 2. Are they "meaner" to women than men? 3. Are they mean in different ways to women? (ie, sexual harassment is usually only towards women) Interesting thoughts though. I wonder though if emphasizing a more radically respectful culture in general would make a difference. It would definitely curb the resentment that men feel over stuff like diversity hiring goals, but without data, we do not know if it would meaningfully make women and minorities experiences any better.

by mybrid 10y ago

sudosteph 10y ago

If everyone was respectful then of course the problem would resolve itself. But imagining for a second that the story did somehow manage to get statistics and quantify the "mean"-ness of an individual, there would still be case for sexism being a factor that uniquely impacts women more negatively. For example, many people are somewhat "mean" but 1. Are these people only mean to women? 2. Are they "meaner" to women than men? 3. Are they mean in different ways to women? (ie, sexual harassment is usually only towards women) Interesting thoughts though. I wonder though if emphasizing a more radically respectful culture in general would make a difference. It would definitely curb the resentment that men feel over stuff like diversity hiring goals, but without data, we do not know if it would meaningfully make women and minorities experiences any better.