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SV is objectively worse than corporate America as a whole... But that doesn't really matter. Tech has a problem and other industries also having problems -- may

by eli 10y ago

SV is objectively worse than corporate America as a whole... But that doesn't really matter. Tech has a problem and other industries also having problems -- maybe even worse problems! -- doesn't excuse it. This is fixable, but it starts with acknowledging it exists.

darawk 10y ago
That's an interesting theory. The question though is whether or not it is true. It certainly could be true. But it could also be that SV is more self-critical, and so we hear about it more. It could also be that we (denizens of HN, that is) are in SV (in the broad sense of 'tech') and therefore more aware of its shortcomings. And it could also be that it is in fact more hostile to women. In the absence of data, we simply don't know.
- eli 10y ago
  There's nothing theoretical about the objective fact that women are underrepresented in tech jobs.
  - darawk 10y ago
    Underrepresented != Treated poorly.
    - eli 10y ago
      Did I say otherwise? Underrepresention is a problem worth addressing in its own right. There's also evidence (e.g. in the linked article) that women are indeed treated unfairly.
      - darawk 10y ago
        No one is discussing under-representation in this thread. What's being discussed is how women are treated. Your response was either a non-sequitur, or referring to the article, which is discussing the treatment of women.
      - LyndsySimon 10y ago
        > Underrepresention is a problem worth addressing in its own right. Not on its own, it's not. The vast majority of healthcare workers are female. 98% of dental hygienists, and 91% of RNs are women. There are 3.6m programmers in the US (as of 2017) and 3.5m nurses (as of 2011) - programmers and nurses have relatively similar salary ranges. Is the underrepresentation of men in the nursing profession worth addressing on its own? How about electricians? 99% of journeyman electricians in the US are male. Is that worth addressing?
        DanBC 10y ago
        > Is the underrepresentation of men in the nursing profession worth addressing on its own? Yes, and there are programmes encouraging men to go into nursing.
        flukus 10y ago
        And supporting younger women to go into software development isn't something anyone has an issue with (except maybe the frequency and extent of it). We don't say there's a problem with the health care industry just because there aren't enough male nurses, we know the cause and it's a cultural one, not an industry one.
        DanBC 10y ago
        > We don't say there's a problem with the health care industry We do.
        tabeth 10y ago
        How is any of this even relevant?
        LyndsySimon 10y ago
        The parent poster made the assertion that underrepresentation is worth addressing on its own, absent other factors. I don't believe that's true.
        10y ago

by eli 10y ago

darawk 10y ago

That's an interesting theory. The question though is whether or not it is true. It certainly could be true. But it could also be that SV is more self-critical, and so we hear about it more. It could also be that we (denizens of HN, that is) are in SV (in the broad sense of 'tech') and therefore more aware of its shortcomings. And it could also be that it is in fact more hostile to women. In the absence of data, we simply don't know.

eli 10y ago
There's nothing theoretical about the objective fact that women are underrepresented in tech jobs.
- darawk 10y ago
  Underrepresented != Treated poorly.
  - eli 10y ago
    Did I say otherwise? Underrepresention is a problem worth addressing in its own right. There's also evidence (e.g. in the linked article) that women are indeed treated unfairly.
    - darawk 10y ago
      No one is discussing under-representation in this thread. What's being discussed is how women are treated. Your response was either a non-sequitur, or referring to the article, which is discussing the treatment of women.
    - LyndsySimon 10y ago
      > Underrepresention is a problem worth addressing in its own right. Not on its own, it's not. The vast majority of healthcare workers are female. 98% of dental hygienists, and 91% of RNs are women. There are 3.6m programmers in the US (as of 2017) and 3.5m nurses (as of 2011) - programmers and nurses have relatively similar salary ranges. Is the underrepresentation of men in the nursing profession worth addressing on its own? How about electricians? 99% of journeyman electricians in the US are male. Is that worth addressing?
      - DanBC 10y ago
        > Is the underrepresentation of men in the nursing profession worth addressing on its own? Yes, and there are programmes encouraging men to go into nursing.
        flukus 10y ago
        And supporting younger women to go into software development isn't something anyone has an issue with (except maybe the frequency and extent of it). We don't say there's a problem with the health care industry just because there aren't enough male nurses, we know the cause and it's a cultural one, not an industry one.
        DanBC 10y ago
        > We don't say there's a problem with the health care industry We do.
      - tabeth 10y ago
        How is any of this even relevant?
        LyndsySimon 10y ago
        The parent poster made the assertion that underrepresentation is worth addressing on its own, absent other factors. I don't believe that's true.
      - 10y ago