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In a way, I'd say what your describing as far as power utilities is already in effect. There are a good number of people that charge their batteries off peak wh

by TOMDM 10y ago

In a way, I'd say what your describing as far as power utilities is already in effect. There are a good number of people that charge their batteries off peak when the power is cheaper such that they can either use it later on peak when they would have to pay more, or even sell that power back to the grid when it's in more demand. I think the issue here is that power is binary as far as the argument here is concerned, you have it or you don't, but influencing consumer patterns on data usage has the potential to seriously influence how they use the internet in a way that paying differing amounts for power doesn't. Competition is one of the most powerful driving forces of the internet today. The idea a lone programmer can offer a service that compares to multinational companies (in some areas, obviously not others) is phenomenal. But say consumers or that developer suddenly have to pay a large ongoing entry cost due to the fact that the product that they have made and are competing with is high bandwidth. Innovation dies overnight without net neutrality.

noobiemcfoob 10y ago
> power is binary as far as the argument here is concerned, you have it or you don't Power is not binary. It is fundamentally analog. You can certainly have different degrees of power. See brownouts. Consumers only tend to see power as binary because of deep standards penetration in the electronics market.
- TOMDM 10y ago
  Don't get me wrong, I certainly understand that power is anything but binary in it's function, however, as far as how consumers interact with it, very very few care as to what the copper in their walls is doing, only that it turns on the lights. To extend the argument of net neutrality in this direction, I think an important distinction needs to be made, because surely you could argue LED's over florescent bulbs due to power consumption, but consumers already pay for different speeds and data caps, the argument shifts to your utility offering different prices based on who is making your LED's, even if they are functionally identical. This is where the comparison breaks down, because the bulbs don't magically become more efficient for your utility because they are somehow peering with the manufacturer.
  - noobiemcfoob 10y ago
    > as far as how consumers interact with it Right. Because of deep penetration of market standards, a mix of government regulation and industry standards, consumers interact with power in this very limited fashion. I don't believe users of bandwidth would want to behave in a similar fashion. Is it so crazy to imagine a dynamic bandwidth market, largely automated for pay per use? I worry about the impacts of such a thing, but it like any other has its benefits and plagues. /To be honest, I have no idea what you mean by your extended metaphor...

by TOMDM 10y ago

noobiemcfoob 10y ago

> power is binary as far as the argument here is concerned, you have it or you don't Power is not binary. It is fundamentally analog. You can certainly have different degrees of power. See brownouts. Consumers only tend to see power as binary because of deep standards penetration in the electronics market.

TOMDM 10y ago
Don't get me wrong, I certainly understand that power is anything but binary in it's function, however, as far as how consumers interact with it, very very few care as to what the copper in their walls is doing, only that it turns on the lights. To extend the argument of net neutrality in this direction, I think an important distinction needs to be made, because surely you could argue LED's over florescent bulbs due to power consumption, but consumers already pay for different speeds and data caps, the argument shifts to your utility offering different prices based on who is making your LED's, even if they are functionally identical. This is where the comparison breaks down, because the bulbs don't magically become more efficient for your utility because they are somehow peering with the manufacturer.
- noobiemcfoob 10y ago
  > as far as how consumers interact with it Right. Because of deep penetration of market standards, a mix of government regulation and industry standards, consumers interact with power in this very limited fashion. I don't believe users of bandwidth would want to behave in a similar fashion. Is it so crazy to imagine a dynamic bandwidth market, largely automated for pay per use? I worry about the impacts of such a thing, but it like any other has its benefits and plagues. /To be honest, I have no idea what you mean by your extended metaphor...