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I resent the accusation. It's like saying the poor Iraqi is better off getting free coca-cola, and getting locked into coca-cola for the rest of his life, than

I resent the accusation. It's like saying the poor Iraqi is better off getting free coca-cola, and getting locked into coca-cola for the rest of his life, than actually getting water (and, if they desire, the possibility of coca-cola). A country growing its infrastructure, which is apparently not yet essential, under the perverse influence of a non-neutral playing field, is a country that will have immense trouble shaking that influence off in the future. As an example, look at America and its relationship to cars vs. public transport. If you want me to "bite a bullet", here I'm biting it: The Iraqi is better off without internet. Give him true choice or let him continue to be free of the delusion that Facebook == The Internet.

seibelj 10y ago
And this is exactly where I philosophically disagree with you. I would rather the Iraqi have access to Wikipedia than have no internet at all. It's saying that you, as a rich American, know what's best for poor foreigners. You would demand someone get everything, or they get nothing.
- RodericDay 10y ago
  I'm not a rich american, you're a bit presumptive there. I'm from Peru. I came from a well-off peruvian background, and I've seen the families of my rich peruvian peers as well as foreigners exploit the hell out of poor people in that country, all while claiming that anyone who wants to enforce some minimum standards or think long-term, is "condescending", or "paternalistic". I've put forward the case of America being hooked on an endless and destructive addiction to cars. I can bring up many others, such as the existing ones with opioids, or unhealthy food. What do you put forward? How many drug pushers have a healthy relationship to their clientele, and help them knock the habit as soon as possible?
  - seibelj 10y ago
    Sorry for presuming you are a rich American instead of a "well-off" peruvian. You are the one comparing drug dealers to free Wikipedia, so I don't know where to begin the argument as you already went off the deep end!
    - RodericDay 10y ago
      It's not free Wikipedia that's the problem, it's free Facebook that's the problem. Stop being disingenuous, you know full-well that's what Zuckerberg was aiming for with `internet.org`.
- ABCLAW 10y ago
  Lets be honest here. Wikipedia isn't going to be funding the expansion of internet networks on the basis that it can fund priority zero rating. It will be American or Chinese consumer facing companies with massive bankrolls and business models built on addictive consumer engagement. Think Amazon fighting Aliexpress for priority access to the Iraq marketplace on the basis of network access, rather than efficiency in product logistics. The idea that NN vs. non-NN network proliferation is an intrinsically paternalistic battle is flipped on its head when cast in real terms.
- omginternets 10y ago
  It's revealing how you suddenly change the example from "Facebook" to "Wikipedia".
- c22 10y ago
  What if instead of wikipedia it was zombo.com?

seibelj 10y ago

And this is exactly where I philosophically disagree with you. I would rather the Iraqi have access to Wikipedia than have no internet at all. It's saying that you, as a rich American, know what's best for poor foreigners. You would demand someone get everything, or they get nothing.

RodericDay 10y ago
I'm not a rich american, you're a bit presumptive there. I'm from Peru. I came from a well-off peruvian background, and I've seen the families of my rich peruvian peers as well as foreigners exploit the hell out of poor people in that country, all while claiming that anyone who wants to enforce some minimum standards or think long-term, is "condescending", or "paternalistic". I've put forward the case of America being hooked on an endless and destructive addiction to cars. I can bring up many others, such as the existing ones with opioids, or unhealthy food. What do you put forward? How many drug pushers have a healthy relationship to their clientele, and help them knock the habit as soon as possible?
- seibelj 10y ago
  Sorry for presuming you are a rich American instead of a "well-off" peruvian. You are the one comparing drug dealers to free Wikipedia, so I don't know where to begin the argument as you already went off the deep end!
  - RodericDay 10y ago
    It's not free Wikipedia that's the problem, it's free Facebook that's the problem. Stop being disingenuous, you know full-well that's what Zuckerberg was aiming for with `internet.org`.
ABCLAW 10y ago
Lets be honest here. Wikipedia isn't going to be funding the expansion of internet networks on the basis that it can fund priority zero rating. It will be American or Chinese consumer facing companies with massive bankrolls and business models built on addictive consumer engagement. Think Amazon fighting Aliexpress for priority access to the Iraq marketplace on the basis of network access, rather than efficiency in product logistics. The idea that NN vs. non-NN network proliferation is an intrinsically paternalistic battle is flipped on its head when cast in real terms.
omginternets 10y ago
It's revealing how you suddenly change the example from "Facebook" to "Wikipedia".
c22 10y ago
What if instead of wikipedia it was zombo.com?