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> The goal was to be able to have a fair game on the court. OK. That also means no advantages for anyone. Cut Welfare, cut support programs, cut grants, cut s

> The goal was to be able to have a fair game on the court. OK. That also means no advantages for anyone. Cut Welfare, cut support programs, cut grants, cut subsidies, etc. Fair means nobody is favored in any way. To take the "shooting the hoop" analogy further, it also means that if someone is out of shape, doesn't exercise and isn't willing to make the effort to get up every day and work hard to be able to make it they fail. And that's the root of the problem I have with some of this narrative. Those who can't make it or fail blame the athletes who do make it for their ailments and call out for "fairness". What they really want is something for nothing. > This is both illogical (if it was just an opportunity, then in theory no one had to Come from England to america did they) and moving the goal posts. I don't think you know what "opportunity" means to an entrepreneur. You can take opportunities to the bank. In sharp contrast to that, ideas are worthless. > America promised a particular type of opportunity (the American dream), and the fair possibility for people to attain it. Pure fabrication on your part my friend. Show me one document that says the US ever promised "a fair possibility to attain the American dream". No such thing. And, even if it were, what's fair anyway? One of the most overused words or concepts. Let's explore "fair" for a moment. When I launched my first business I had to work 18 hour days 7 days a week to make it go. All self-funded BTW. I did that for about 18 months. I then worked about 16 hour days 5 to 6 days a week for another couple of years, still in the garage. Three years later it made sense to move it out of the garage into a 10,000 square foot industrial building. I was finally able to only work 12 hour days. I don't think we took a non-working vacation in ten years. What the hell is "fair" in this context for someone who looks at what I achieved through that effort? Should I give them half my money so they can live without working? Or half my money so they can start a business and compete with me? Or half my money so they can have a lifetime pension and retire at 50 years of age? No. "Fair" means that if you want what I have you either work harder or smarter than me, or both. You, and anyone else, have the opportunity to do so, just like I did. I am not special at all other than I am willing to do what has to be done. That's it. I could have chosen to stay at my prior job earning $120K a year and go sailing every weekend. I chose to work over 16 hour days for three years and risk hundreds of thousands of dollars to chase after a personal dream. As a wise man told me: "Having a business gives you great freedom. You get to choose which 20 hours of the day you want to work. Most people don't want to have that freedom yet are quick to envy or critique those who do have it." Want it "fair"? Stop complaining about rich people and get to work. Nobody is stopping you.

rebootthesystem 10y ago
Here's another interesting case (from another thread on HN) of someone who worked his ass off to rise way above average: https://billmei.net/blog/silicon-valley-job-search https://billmei.net/blog/silicon-valley-job-search Thousands of people want to be him. Few are willing to do what he did. I am sure some of them blame the rich for their ailments.
intended 10y ago
Look I'm very happy you succeeded and made it. I don't envy you, or covet your success. I do disparage your lack of information on developmental statistics and societal behavior. Matter of fact the most regret is not having a reading/article list ready at short notice, to help with this discussion. It would help by showing, for example: 1) Even people who argue for welfare are arguing for actual fairness. 1.1) studies show that child development (which relates to scores) is influenced by maternal and grand maternal nutrition levels, and so poverty results in disadvantaged kids without any fault on their part. This kills the fair concept you hold. Which is why I'm for fairness in this area. I want it to be fair, and I don't think kids who are suffering through no fault of their own, should be disadvantaged by unfairness masquerading as "fairness" 2) reduction in social mobility means that yes, even if you work hard, you will tread water. So not all entrepreneurs make it. Many many more fail. And lots of people work 18 hour days, 7 days a week and still tread water. 3) evidence for the American dream, other than the fact that large chunks of my family made it and lived in an America where this was accepted and the reason people were attracted 4) bias, systemic, gender, age and racial, and how they persist despite laws, despite efforts to rub it out (and it has improved since this fight stil started. The world is inherently unfair. People are losing even after putting in as much effort as you. The fair, is in that someone gets to compete on the same platform as you. That they enter the court without handicaps.

rebootthesystem 10y ago

Here's another interesting case (from another thread on HN) of someone who worked his ass off to rise way above average: https://billmei.net/blog/silicon-valley-job-search https://billmei.net/blog/silicon-valley-job-search Thousands of people want to be him. Few are willing to do what he did. I am sure some of them blame the rich for their ailments.

intended 10y ago

Look I'm very happy you succeeded and made it. I don't envy you, or covet your success. I do disparage your lack of information on developmental statistics and societal behavior. Matter of fact the most regret is not having a reading/article list ready at short notice, to help with this discussion. It would help by showing, for example: 1) Even people who argue for welfare are arguing for actual fairness. 1.1) studies show that child development (which relates to scores) is influenced by maternal and grand maternal nutrition levels, and so poverty results in disadvantaged kids without any fault on their part. This kills the fair concept you hold. Which is why I'm for fairness in this area. I want it to be fair, and I don't think kids who are suffering through no fault of their own, should be disadvantaged by unfairness masquerading as "fairness" 2) reduction in social mobility means that yes, even if you work hard, you will tread water. So not all entrepreneurs make it. Many many more fail. And lots of people work 18 hour days, 7 days a week and still tread water. 3) evidence for the American dream, other than the fact that large chunks of my family made it and lived in an America where this was accepted and the reason people were attracted 4) bias, systemic, gender, age and racial, and how they persist despite laws, despite efforts to rub it out (and it has improved since this fight stil started. The world is inherently unfair. People are losing even after putting in as much effort as you. The fair, is in that someone gets to compete on the same platform as you. That they enter the court without handicaps.