5 ms·

>If people are happy with that status quo, who are we to challenge them? Don't mistake addiction for contentment. How many of those people would like to be doi

by zardo 10y ago

>If people are happy with that status quo, who are we to challenge them? Don't mistake addiction for contentment. How many of those people would like to be doing something else, but just can't pull themselves away from the slot machine?

beaconstudios 10y ago
and how many people tell themselves they'd like to do something else (say, learn a language or instrument) as a form of ego-protection because it's "what sophisticated people do"? The underlying assumption that we should all want to learn Latin and to play the Cello seems to have been roundly invalidated, despite continuing to be played out in the public sphere.
- always_good 10y ago
  Probably not very many people tell themselves that. Seems more like something cynical and judgmental people assume other people tell themselves. But I can tell you almost anything creative / productive / self-developmental feels more rewarding than the time I fritter away doing nothing on the internet, like idly scrolling Reddit. I'm not content that my default mode is to do things that never feel rewarding. So any minute I can reclaim for something more self-developmental, like a Duolingo Spanish exercise, makes my life a little better and satisfying in my own eyes.
  - beaconstudios 10y ago
    But _why_ do you want to learn Spanish? Is it because you are planning an extended stay in a Spanish-speaking country, or have Spanish-speaking friends, or is it because you have a romantic conception of multilingualism? My point was that people often seem to romanticise fairly arbitrary personal development goals as being a lofty intent, but when push comes to shove you'll find them in front of the TV or playing a game. What does that say about our internal reward system and the value of forcing yourself to do something that you tell yourself you'll enjoy over something you genuinely enjoy? The idea that entertainment is a "lower pursuit" and learning arbitrary skills is a "higher pursuit" smacks of social construction.
    - externalities88 10y ago
      Whaaat! Social species make social constructs! Get out. Is having a romanticized idea as a motivation wrong? We're humans, not robots. Well, maybe you are; it's the Internet. You undermine your point with the tone deaf point of "social construction". Anything humans take on collectively is a social construct. Ideally as many voices as possible are considered when they are designed. But our social constructs today don't allow this. How much of "sit in front of $GADGET not learning Spanish" is due to the social construct of having no vacation time. Or having to work constantly to afford the basics, forget paying for Spanish. Suggesting there be a limit on who experiences what is also a social construct. Cause reality imposes no such limit. Our society does. It's a social construct to have 200 diff companies doing data analytics. When those problems can be handled by one group of 200. Suggesting arbitrary limits on social constructs is ridiculous. Because you don't agree with one is not basis enough to suggest it not be a thing
    - PKop 10y ago
      Could you substitute "eating healthy" and "exercise" into this line of thinking? Or other alternatives that you yourself might agree are "better" while maybe being difficult to choose to do, and not as "enjoyable" as some less ideal alternative action? That something is "enjoyable" in the short-term does not mean that it is beneficial in the long term. Doing drugs, getting high, gambling, any other short-term dopamine hit is easy, and feels good in the moment, yet can pretty easily be characterized as bad in the long term, and objectively worse than alternative actions that in the short term are not as pleasurable and enjoyable. I use obviously extreme examples to illustrate the logic. Figuring out which pursuits and behaviors fit into which bucket certainly is not quite so straight forward. But I think the OP you are responding to has something right when they describe it challenging to escape the easy/addictive and replace it with the difficult/beneficial. If you only characterized exercise as "practicing picking up a heavy weight and putting it over there. Why do you need to do this? etc." then certainly the benefits can seem ridiculous. That there is no direct practical need to learn Spanish, doesn't mean learning to speak it doesn't garner ancillary benefits.
  - nostrademons 10y ago
    There's a balance to be had here. I've tried to "be creative" all the time and it just doesn't work. You need those moments idly scrolling Reddit or HN (or going for a walk outside, or vegging out with TV or videogames) for your brain to a.) have new stimulus to process and b.) have time to process it. I'd be terribly unhappy if all I did was surf Reddit, but I was also equally unhappy when I just tried to work, produce, and learn all the time.

by zardo 10y ago

beaconstudios 10y ago

and how many people tell themselves they'd like to do something else (say, learn a language or instrument) as a form of ego-protection because it's "what sophisticated people do"? The underlying assumption that we should all want to learn Latin and to play the Cello seems to have been roundly invalidated, despite continuing to be played out in the public sphere.

always_good 10y ago
Probably not very many people tell themselves that. Seems more like something cynical and judgmental people assume other people tell themselves. But I can tell you almost anything creative / productive / self-developmental feels more rewarding than the time I fritter away doing nothing on the internet, like idly scrolling Reddit. I'm not content that my default mode is to do things that never feel rewarding. So any minute I can reclaim for something more self-developmental, like a Duolingo Spanish exercise, makes my life a little better and satisfying in my own eyes.
- beaconstudios 10y ago
  But _why_ do you want to learn Spanish? Is it because you are planning an extended stay in a Spanish-speaking country, or have Spanish-speaking friends, or is it because you have a romantic conception of multilingualism? My point was that people often seem to romanticise fairly arbitrary personal development goals as being a lofty intent, but when push comes to shove you'll find them in front of the TV or playing a game. What does that say about our internal reward system and the value of forcing yourself to do something that you tell yourself you'll enjoy over something you genuinely enjoy? The idea that entertainment is a "lower pursuit" and learning arbitrary skills is a "higher pursuit" smacks of social construction.
  - externalities88 10y ago
    Whaaat! Social species make social constructs! Get out. Is having a romanticized idea as a motivation wrong? We're humans, not robots. Well, maybe you are; it's the Internet. You undermine your point with the tone deaf point of "social construction". Anything humans take on collectively is a social construct. Ideally as many voices as possible are considered when they are designed. But our social constructs today don't allow this. How much of "sit in front of $GADGET not learning Spanish" is due to the social construct of having no vacation time. Or having to work constantly to afford the basics, forget paying for Spanish. Suggesting there be a limit on who experiences what is also a social construct. Cause reality imposes no such limit. Our society does. It's a social construct to have 200 diff companies doing data analytics. When those problems can be handled by one group of 200. Suggesting arbitrary limits on social constructs is ridiculous. Because you don't agree with one is not basis enough to suggest it not be a thing
  - PKop 10y ago
    Could you substitute "eating healthy" and "exercise" into this line of thinking? Or other alternatives that you yourself might agree are "better" while maybe being difficult to choose to do, and not as "enjoyable" as some less ideal alternative action? That something is "enjoyable" in the short-term does not mean that it is beneficial in the long term. Doing drugs, getting high, gambling, any other short-term dopamine hit is easy, and feels good in the moment, yet can pretty easily be characterized as bad in the long term, and objectively worse than alternative actions that in the short term are not as pleasurable and enjoyable. I use obviously extreme examples to illustrate the logic. Figuring out which pursuits and behaviors fit into which bucket certainly is not quite so straight forward. But I think the OP you are responding to has something right when they describe it challenging to escape the easy/addictive and replace it with the difficult/beneficial. If you only characterized exercise as "practicing picking up a heavy weight and putting it over there. Why do you need to do this? etc." then certainly the benefits can seem ridiculous. That there is no direct practical need to learn Spanish, doesn't mean learning to speak it doesn't garner ancillary benefits.
- nostrademons 10y ago
  There's a balance to be had here. I've tried to "be creative" all the time and it just doesn't work. You need those moments idly scrolling Reddit or HN (or going for a walk outside, or vegging out with TV or videogames) for your brain to a.) have new stimulus to process and b.) have time to process it. I'd be terribly unhappy if all I did was surf Reddit, but I was also equally unhappy when I just tried to work, produce, and learn all the time.