3 ms·

But what is authenticity? That is a serious question. What is it? When I was in Dublin the thing that really surprised me was how every bar.. er... pub had th

But what is authenticity? That is a serious question. What is it? When I was in Dublin the thing that really surprised me was how every bar.. er... pub had these amazing Irish musicians who sort of picked up various instruments and just went at it. I would identify it as "irish folk music" though if they were belting out lesser known Richard Thompson tunes, I would not know. Were they paid? Did they carry their instruments with themselves? Who knows. Now, I consider that authentic. Was it authentic? Do Irish people read this and think "he was stuck in that tourist trap area" or do they think "yup, that's good 'ol homestyle music"? And can we reproduce that here?

keithpeter 10y ago
"But what is authenticity?" Good question. Probably an accumulation of our experience of a 'third place'. I like family run Italian cafes and restaurants. There are a few in Birmingham, I was in a very nice one in Liverpool a couple of weeks ago, and there are lots (still, just about) in London. You could probably define a script that would reproduce a typical interior, and you could probably build a reasonable facsimile of a family run Italian cafe in a shopping centre easily enough. But I would not have been eating there for 30 years...
anigbrowl 10y ago
Authenticity is individuality. It's a trying question though, best considered in depth. Here's my favorite exploration of the topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIVgUjj6RxU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIVgUjj6RxU
mirimir 10y ago
I encountered that in Manhattan in the late 80s. It was fashionable among anarchist hippies to support the IRA.
subpixel 10y ago
That's probably a seisiun (pronounced, sometimes spelled session): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_traditional_music_session https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_traditional_music_sessio... There's a bar in Queens that has a killer session Sunday nights (there are dozens at other bars in NYC throughout the week). It drives me insane but during football season, they cancel the session if the Giants or Jets are on TV. Alas, at least 2x as many people show up for football as for music.
pjc50 10y ago
That's a "session" and it's pretty authentic. Musicians are generally unpaid (although a bar might hire some to get started) and bring their own instruments. It does have a complex non-obvious etiquette about who participates. It's effectively "peer production" of entertainment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_traditional_music_session https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_traditional_music_sessio...
beat 10y ago
It's not just Irish pubs. Here in Minneapolis, we have a lot of bars that cater to local bands. You can drop in most evenings and hear live local music - some good, some not so good - and have a drink. Bands might divvy up a small cover charge, or might just get a couple of free beers (and not the good beers). It's a place to play. Go elsewhere, you'll hear pick-up country jams, playing the classics. Or hip-hop, or slam poetry, or Irish music, or bebop. A big part of what makes something like Irish session music, bluegrass, protest folk, bop, blues, etc work is a powerful shared vocabulary. There are songs everyone knows, and musical clichés that experienced performers can follow even if they don't know the specific tune. You like to play, you join the community, you get good, you get respected, and darn it, there's a bunch of people willing to actually listen to you while they drink a beer. For a lot of us, that's the reward. "I used to think I was an artist. Turns out I'm a beer salesman." -James McMurtry

keithpeter 10y ago

"But what is authenticity?" Good question. Probably an accumulation of our experience of a 'third place'. I like family run Italian cafes and restaurants. There are a few in Birmingham, I was in a very nice one in Liverpool a couple of weeks ago, and there are lots (still, just about) in London. You could probably define a script that would reproduce a typical interior, and you could probably build a reasonable facsimile of a family run Italian cafe in a shopping centre easily enough. But I would not have been eating there for 30 years...

anigbrowl 10y ago

Authenticity is individuality. It's a trying question though, best considered in depth. Here's my favorite exploration of the topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIVgUjj6RxU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIVgUjj6RxU

mirimir 10y ago

I encountered that in Manhattan in the late 80s. It was fashionable among anarchist hippies to support the IRA.

subpixel 10y ago

That's probably a seisiun (pronounced, sometimes spelled session): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_traditional_music_session https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_traditional_music_sessio... There's a bar in Queens that has a killer session Sunday nights (there are dozens at other bars in NYC throughout the week). It drives me insane but during football season, they cancel the session if the Giants or Jets are on TV. Alas, at least 2x as many people show up for football as for music.

pjc50 10y ago

That's a "session" and it's pretty authentic. Musicians are generally unpaid (although a bar might hire some to get started) and bring their own instruments. It does have a complex non-obvious etiquette about who participates. It's effectively "peer production" of entertainment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_traditional_music_session https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_traditional_music_sessio...

beat 10y ago

It's not just Irish pubs. Here in Minneapolis, we have a lot of bars that cater to local bands. You can drop in most evenings and hear live local music - some good, some not so good - and have a drink. Bands might divvy up a small cover charge, or might just get a couple of free beers (and not the good beers). It's a place to play. Go elsewhere, you'll hear pick-up country jams, playing the classics. Or hip-hop, or slam poetry, or Irish music, or bebop. A big part of what makes something like Irish session music, bluegrass, protest folk, bop, blues, etc work is a powerful shared vocabulary. There are songs everyone knows, and musical clichés that experienced performers can follow even if they don't know the specific tune. You like to play, you join the community, you get good, you get respected, and darn it, there's a bunch of people willing to actually listen to you while they drink a beer. For a lot of us, that's the reward. "I used to think I was an artist. Turns out I'm a beer salesman." -James McMurtry