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This letter appears to be a drawn out detailed set of insults to his older brother. Maybe cultured isn't the best translation. Is this what we in the US would h

by gmarx 10y ago

This letter appears to be a drawn out detailed set of insults to his older brother. Maybe cultured isn't the best translation. Is this what we in the US would have called "classy" back then?

jerf 10y ago
Classiness does not preclude being insulting. It simply calls for a higher degree of skill in the insulting. History is full of classy insults. Diplomacy is nearly made of them. http://allowe.com/laughs/book/When%20Insults%20Had%20Class.htm http://allowe.com/laughs/book/When%20Insults%20Had%20Class.h... - just a quick hit on "classy insults" that seems to fit what I'm saying here.
- jdmichal 10y ago
  There's also something to be said for long-form writing with snail mail enabling this. A very quick wit is required to make such insults in real time, as opposed to behind a pen with a day or two of thought.
- gmarx 10y ago
  No, I meant "cultured" wasn't what he was describing,
spdionis 10y ago
"well bred" is indeed a more correct translation
sillypog 10y ago
I agree. I got a few items into the list and got the sense that a joke was being played. I wonder if the original poster had that sense too and was in on the joke?
burkaman 10y ago
I might say "gentle criticism" rather than insults, but the beginning and end of the letter do make it clear that he is specifically advising his brother: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/6408/6408-h/6408-h.htm#link2H_4_0016 http://www.gutenberg.org/files/6408/6408-h/6408-h.htm#link2H... > You have only one failing, and the falseness of your position, and your unhappiness and your catarrh of the bowels are all due to it. That is your utter lack of culture. >You must drop your vanity, you are not a child ... you will soon be thirty. It is time! I expect you.... We all expect you.
- gmarx 10y ago
  disagree that this is gentle. If you assume that every bit of advice implies that his brother is the opposite it's pretty bad
  - burkaman 10y ago
    Well, he prefaces it with "I think you are kind to the point of softness, magnanimous, unselfish, ready to share your last farthing; you have no envy nor hatred; you are simple-hearted, you pity men and beasts; you are trustful, without spite or guile, and do not remember evil.... You have a gift from above such as other people have not: you have talent." Sounds like his brother probably satisfies at least 1, 2, and 3. That's why I say gentle; he says "you're a great guy, you have natural talent and the potential to be cultured, just need to work on your attitude and develop your talent".
xentronium 10y ago
Chekhov had this very weird and dry sense of humor. Some jokes would certainly look like insults to a random observer. In this case, though, I believe he was actually frank, if blunt, but well meaning (his brother had issues with alcohol).

by gmarx 10y ago

This letter appears to be a drawn out detailed set of insults to his older brother. Maybe cultured isn't the best translation. Is this what we in the US would have called "classy" back then?

jerf 10y ago

Classiness does not preclude being insulting. It simply calls for a higher degree of skill in the insulting. History is full of classy insults. Diplomacy is nearly made of them. http://allowe.com/laughs/book/When%20Insults%20Had%20Class.htm http://allowe.com/laughs/book/When%20Insults%20Had%20Class.h... - just a quick hit on "classy insults" that seems to fit what I'm saying here.

jdmichal 10y ago
There's also something to be said for long-form writing with snail mail enabling this. A very quick wit is required to make such insults in real time, as opposed to behind a pen with a day or two of thought.
gmarx 10y ago
No, I meant "cultured" wasn't what he was describing,

spdionis 10y ago

"well bred" is indeed a more correct translation

sillypog 10y ago

I agree. I got a few items into the list and got the sense that a joke was being played. I wonder if the original poster had that sense too and was in on the joke?

burkaman 10y ago

I might say "gentle criticism" rather than insults, but the beginning and end of the letter do make it clear that he is specifically advising his brother: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/6408/6408-h/6408-h.htm#link2H_4_0016 http://www.gutenberg.org/files/6408/6408-h/6408-h.htm#link2H... > You have only one failing, and the falseness of your position, and your unhappiness and your catarrh of the bowels are all due to it. That is your utter lack of culture. >You must drop your vanity, you are not a child ... you will soon be thirty. It is time! I expect you.... We all expect you.

gmarx 10y ago
disagree that this is gentle. If you assume that every bit of advice implies that his brother is the opposite it's pretty bad
- burkaman 10y ago
  Well, he prefaces it with "I think you are kind to the point of softness, magnanimous, unselfish, ready to share your last farthing; you have no envy nor hatred; you are simple-hearted, you pity men and beasts; you are trustful, without spite or guile, and do not remember evil.... You have a gift from above such as other people have not: you have talent." Sounds like his brother probably satisfies at least 1, 2, and 3. That's why I say gentle; he says "you're a great guy, you have natural talent and the potential to be cultured, just need to work on your attitude and develop your talent".

xentronium 10y ago

Chekhov had this very weird and dry sense of humor. Some jokes would certainly look like insults to a random observer. In this case, though, I believe he was actually frank, if blunt, but well meaning (his brother had issues with alcohol).