4 ms·

Pretty sad though, the loss of authenticity. And the resignation of a comment like this. Also the part about how customers should accept it because of the con

by gech 10y ago

Pretty sad though, the loss of authenticity. And the resignation of a comment like this. Also the part about how customers should accept it because of the considerations capital has in starting it up.

CPLX 10y ago
I'm not convinced it's particularly inauthentic. It's an Irish bar made by Irish people in Ireland purporting to be exactly what it is.
- schwap 10y ago
  I don't think 'authenticity' is that simple. I'm a Canadian, I love hockey and have a pretty good understanding of it. I could make a 'hockey stick' shape out of plywood and paint it up to look good, and you could even in theory use it to smack a puck around, but its still not an authentic hockey stick.
  - CPLX 10y ago
    Of course that's an authentic hockey stick, it's just DIY.
  - sanswork 10y ago
    But that would be an authentic hockey stick. It'd just be a shit one.
startupdiscuss 10y ago
But what is authenticity? That is a serious question. What is it? When I was in Dublin the thing that really surprised me was how every bar.. er... pub had these amazing Irish musicians who sort of picked up various instruments and just went at it. I would identify it as "irish folk music" though if they were belting out lesser known Richard Thompson tunes, I would not know. Were they paid? Did they carry their instruments with themselves? Who knows. Now, I consider that authentic. Was it authentic? Do Irish people read this and think "he was stuck in that tourist trap area" or do they think "yup, that's good 'ol homestyle music"? And can we reproduce that here?
- keithpeter 10y ago
  "But what is authenticity?" Good question. Probably an accumulation of our experience of a 'third place'. I like family run Italian cafes and restaurants. There are a few in Birmingham, I was in a very nice one in Liverpool a couple of weeks ago, and there are lots (still, just about) in London. You could probably define a script that would reproduce a typical interior, and you could probably build a reasonable facsimile of a family run Italian cafe in a shopping centre easily enough. But I would not have been eating there for 30 years...
- anigbrowl 10y ago
  Authenticity is individuality. It's a trying question though, best considered in depth. Here's my favorite exploration of the topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIVgUjj6RxU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIVgUjj6RxU
- mirimir 10y ago
  I encountered that in Manhattan in the late 80s. It was fashionable among anarchist hippies to support the IRA.
- subpixel 10y ago
  That's probably a seisiun (pronounced, sometimes spelled session): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_traditional_music_session https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_traditional_music_sessio... There's a bar in Queens that has a killer session Sunday nights (there are dozens at other bars in NYC throughout the week). It drives me insane but during football season, they cancel the session if the Giants or Jets are on TV. Alas, at least 2x as many people show up for football as for music.
- pjc50 10y ago
  That's a "session" and it's pretty authentic. Musicians are generally unpaid (although a bar might hire some to get started) and bring their own instruments. It does have a complex non-obvious etiquette about who participates. It's effectively "peer production" of entertainment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_traditional_music_session https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_traditional_music_sessio...
- 10y ago
owenversteeg 10y ago
In most of the world, the foreign community there isn't large enough to create a genuine foreign pub, so if you want a genuine pub it's going to be "native", and that's not as interesting to the natives. There are exceptions: New York City has a very high density of people from different countries. It's possible to walk around Flushing NY (part of Queens) and sit down at a completely genuine Chinese restaurant, where you will be given a menu with either a highly questionable English translation or none at all. Everything you will be surrounded with, from the language to the people to the decor, will be Chinese, and it will be a very authentic experience, and I personally love it. But that can only happen where there's a dense population of Chinese people. It can happen in Flushing, where the population is 71% Asian. But it cannot happen in most of the US, where the local population is mostly homogeneous. That's why bars like this are in demand.
- anigbrowl 10y ago
  But that's the problem. There's demand for places like this because people want to know and experience more of other cultures, but at the same time we have politicians stoking hostility to actual people from other countries that could establish those communities and bring that cultural diversity, like that Steve King jackass from Iowa saying 'we can't rebuild our civilization with other people's babies.'
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

by gech 10y ago

CPLX 10y ago

I'm not convinced it's particularly inauthentic. It's an Irish bar made by Irish people in Ireland purporting to be exactly what it is.

schwap 10y ago
I don't think 'authenticity' is that simple. I'm a Canadian, I love hockey and have a pretty good understanding of it. I could make a 'hockey stick' shape out of plywood and paint it up to look good, and you could even in theory use it to smack a puck around, but its still not an authentic hockey stick.
- CPLX 10y ago
  Of course that's an authentic hockey stick, it's just DIY.
- sanswork 10y ago
  But that would be an authentic hockey stick. It'd just be a shit one.

startupdiscuss 10y ago

But what is authenticity? That is a serious question. What is it? When I was in Dublin the thing that really surprised me was how every bar.. er... pub had these amazing Irish musicians who sort of picked up various instruments and just went at it. I would identify it as "irish folk music" though if they were belting out lesser known Richard Thompson tunes, I would not know. Were they paid? Did they carry their instruments with themselves? Who knows. Now, I consider that authentic. Was it authentic? Do Irish people read this and think "he was stuck in that tourist trap area" or do they think "yup, that's good 'ol homestyle music"? And can we reproduce that here?

keithpeter 10y ago
"But what is authenticity?" Good question. Probably an accumulation of our experience of a 'third place'. I like family run Italian cafes and restaurants. There are a few in Birmingham, I was in a very nice one in Liverpool a couple of weeks ago, and there are lots (still, just about) in London. You could probably define a script that would reproduce a typical interior, and you could probably build a reasonable facsimile of a family run Italian cafe in a shopping centre easily enough. But I would not have been eating there for 30 years...
anigbrowl 10y ago
Authenticity is individuality. It's a trying question though, best considered in depth. Here's my favorite exploration of the topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIVgUjj6RxU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIVgUjj6RxU
mirimir 10y ago
I encountered that in Manhattan in the late 80s. It was fashionable among anarchist hippies to support the IRA.
subpixel 10y ago
That's probably a seisiun (pronounced, sometimes spelled session): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_traditional_music_session https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_traditional_music_sessio... There's a bar in Queens that has a killer session Sunday nights (there are dozens at other bars in NYC throughout the week). It drives me insane but during football season, they cancel the session if the Giants or Jets are on TV. Alas, at least 2x as many people show up for football as for music.
pjc50 10y ago
That's a "session" and it's pretty authentic. Musicians are generally unpaid (although a bar might hire some to get started) and bring their own instruments. It does have a complex non-obvious etiquette about who participates. It's effectively "peer production" of entertainment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_traditional_music_session https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_traditional_music_sessio...
10y ago

owenversteeg 10y ago

In most of the world, the foreign community there isn't large enough to create a genuine foreign pub, so if you want a genuine pub it's going to be "native", and that's not as interesting to the natives. There are exceptions: New York City has a very high density of people from different countries. It's possible to walk around Flushing NY (part of Queens) and sit down at a completely genuine Chinese restaurant, where you will be given a menu with either a highly questionable English translation or none at all. Everything you will be surrounded with, from the language to the people to the decor, will be Chinese, and it will be a very authentic experience, and I personally love it. But that can only happen where there's a dense population of Chinese people. It can happen in Flushing, where the population is 71% Asian. But it cannot happen in most of the US, where the local population is mostly homogeneous. That's why bars like this are in demand.

anigbrowl 10y ago
But that's the problem. There's demand for places like this because people want to know and experience more of other cultures, but at the same time we have politicians stoking hostility to actual people from other countries that could establish those communities and bring that cultural diversity, like that Steve King jackass from Iowa saying 'we can't rebuild our civilization with other people's babies.'

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]