5 ms·

If you're smart enough, you'll get to a point sooner or later where you are no longer working class. You won't be getting paid a low hourly wage, nor will you

by Danihan 10y ago

If you're smart enough, you'll get to a point sooner or later where you are no longer working class. You won't be getting paid a low hourly wage, nor will you be living paycheck to paycheck. Once you are not working class, you'll gradually become very out of touch with working class issues and perspectives. It's nearly impossible to see life as an ongoing, harsh competition where everyone is hustling each day to survive, when you aren't living that way. You become liberal instead, like all your friends, and espouse egalitarianism and socialism. Meanwhile, the working class remain staunchly conservative. They are competing for a paycheck every day of their lives. They have no extra money to give away, period. Handouts for people they consider to be lazy disgust them. The upper class remain liberal. Harsh competition is just so low class, isn't it? So primitive, so gauche. Why can't we all just work together for a greater good? Handouts for the poor only help the most vulnerable among us. How could you be against that?! It's an intractable polarization, in my opinion.

tomlock 10y ago
If you consider democrats liberal then perhaps you could help me understand why 88% of african-americans voted for Hillary? Also do you consider unions to be liberal?
- splintercell 10y ago
  > If you consider democrats liberal then perhaps you could help me understand why 88% of african-americans voted for Hillary? Different priorities. A lot of astronauts and NASA scientists don't believe in anthropogenic nature of climate change. Are they backward, anti-reason, anti-science religious individuals? Perhaps you can help me understand why?
  - tomlock 10y ago
    What are you basing that claim on? >Meanwhile, the working class remain staunchly conservative. This flies in the face of the facts surrounding who voted for who in the last election - if you consider Democrats to be liberal. What different priorities do you feel the generally worse-off working class minorities in America have?
    - dragonwriter 10y ago
      > if you consider Democrats to be liberal. The long- (since at least Clinton's "Third Way" politics in the early 1990s) dominant faction (and the one whose standard-bearer won the nominating contest) of the Democratic Party is center-right. While that's less right-wing than the Republican Party, the Republican nominee was a political outsider that deliberately—alongside some fairly explicit endorsements of some far-right and extreme nationalist positions, to be sure—largely adopted vague language filled with direct appeals to liberal values and interest groups, and specifically targeted those dissillusioned by the progressive defeat by the center-right faction of the Democratic Party. (This kind of ambiguity and rhetorical gesture to the left has substantial precedent from the authoritarian right.)
      - tomlock 10y ago
        I also wouldn't broadly say that Democrats are liberal. I think most political dichotomies contain broad churches. As a result I also think claims that x political view is derived from y quality of those people are simple and clumsy ways of attempting to understand the world.
  - the_gastropod 10y ago
    >A lot of astronauts and NASA scientists don't believe in anthropogenic nature of climate change Source?
    - splintercell 10y ago
      <The group, which includes seven Apollo astronauts and two former directors of NASA’s Johnson Space Center in Houston, are dismayed over the failure of NASA, and specifically the Goddard Institute For Space Studies (GISS), to make an objective assessment of all available scientific data on climate change.> http://www.businessinsider.com/nasa-scientists-dispute-climate-change-2012-4 http://www.businessinsider.com/nasa-scientists-dispute-clima... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2814701/I-sceptical-humans-causing-global-warming-says-Buzz-Aldrin-thinks-people-sent-DIE-Mars.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2814701/I-sce...
      - CalChris 10y ago
        There's been over 560 astronauts.
      - tomlock 10y ago
        So when you say "a lot", what you mean to say is that 7 astronauts did. That's equivalent to 15% of active astronauts who are currently active or 2% from the total amount of astronauts ever active.
        splintercell 10y ago
        Doesn't change my question a bit. Remember my question isn't, "Since these NASA scientists say that Climate change isn't real, therefore it isn't real". So don't try to answer THAT question.
        tomlock 10y ago
        Its frankly incredibly odd that you're seeing this question you've posed as the focus of discussion. Your initial claim was that the working class is "staunchly conservative". Your question doesn't change that claim.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- grenoire 10y ago
  Setting aside the blatant snide in your first question, he already answered it. In the US, one of the groups that are seemingly deemed inferior by the Republicans is the African-Americans. African-Americans are very well aware of that, and as such prefer the Democrats who rally for racial equality. At least for the most part...
  - tomlock 10y ago
    The fact that african-americans, who are demographically typically more "working-class" than other groups, voted that way directly contradicts his claim that the working class is "staunchly conservative". Obviously it isn't as simple as that.
frgtpsswrdlame 10y ago
>If you're smart enough, you'll get to a point sooner or later where you are no longer working class. You won't be getting paid a low hourly wage, nor will you be living paycheck to paycheck. 1) I just reject this, plenty of smart people are trapped by lifes circumstances. 2) If you grew up working class, you will probably always feel a tinge of that no matter how far out of poverty you grow. Class may grow out of differences in wealth but it's tendrils reach into all sorts of other areas including politics. 3) There are tons and tons of upper class conservatives. > Among college-educated whites, only 39 percent of men and 51 percent of women voted for Clinton. https://newrepublic.com/article/138754/blame-trumps-victory-college-educated-whites-not-working-class https://newrepublic.com/article/138754/blame-trumps-victory-...

by Danihan 10y ago

tomlock 10y ago

If you consider democrats liberal then perhaps you could help me understand why 88% of african-americans voted for Hillary? Also do you consider unions to be liberal?

splintercell 10y ago
> If you consider democrats liberal then perhaps you could help me understand why 88% of african-americans voted for Hillary? Different priorities. A lot of astronauts and NASA scientists don't believe in anthropogenic nature of climate change. Are they backward, anti-reason, anti-science religious individuals? Perhaps you can help me understand why?
- tomlock 10y ago
  What are you basing that claim on? >Meanwhile, the working class remain staunchly conservative. This flies in the face of the facts surrounding who voted for who in the last election - if you consider Democrats to be liberal. What different priorities do you feel the generally worse-off working class minorities in America have?
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    > if you consider Democrats to be liberal. The long- (since at least Clinton's "Third Way" politics in the early 1990s) dominant faction (and the one whose standard-bearer won the nominating contest) of the Democratic Party is center-right. While that's less right-wing than the Republican Party, the Republican nominee was a political outsider that deliberately—alongside some fairly explicit endorsements of some far-right and extreme nationalist positions, to be sure—largely adopted vague language filled with direct appeals to liberal values and interest groups, and specifically targeted those dissillusioned by the progressive defeat by the center-right faction of the Democratic Party. (This kind of ambiguity and rhetorical gesture to the left has substantial precedent from the authoritarian right.)
    - tomlock 10y ago
      I also wouldn't broadly say that Democrats are liberal. I think most political dichotomies contain broad churches. As a result I also think claims that x political view is derived from y quality of those people are simple and clumsy ways of attempting to understand the world.
- the_gastropod 10y ago
  >A lot of astronauts and NASA scientists don't believe in anthropogenic nature of climate change Source?
  - splintercell 10y ago
    <The group, which includes seven Apollo astronauts and two former directors of NASA’s Johnson Space Center in Houston, are dismayed over the failure of NASA, and specifically the Goddard Institute For Space Studies (GISS), to make an objective assessment of all available scientific data on climate change.> http://www.businessinsider.com/nasa-scientists-dispute-climate-change-2012-4 http://www.businessinsider.com/nasa-scientists-dispute-clima... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2814701/I-sceptical-humans-causing-global-warming-says-Buzz-Aldrin-thinks-people-sent-DIE-Mars.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2814701/I-sce...
    - CalChris 10y ago
      There's been over 560 astronauts.
    - tomlock 10y ago
      So when you say "a lot", what you mean to say is that 7 astronauts did. That's equivalent to 15% of active astronauts who are currently active or 2% from the total amount of astronauts ever active.
      - splintercell 10y ago
        Doesn't change my question a bit. Remember my question isn't, "Since these NASA scientists say that Climate change isn't real, therefore it isn't real". So don't try to answer THAT question.
        tomlock 10y ago
        Its frankly incredibly odd that you're seeing this question you've posed as the focus of discussion. Your initial claim was that the working class is "staunchly conservative". Your question doesn't change that claim.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
grenoire 10y ago
Setting aside the blatant snide in your first question, he already answered it. In the US, one of the groups that are seemingly deemed inferior by the Republicans is the African-Americans. African-Americans are very well aware of that, and as such prefer the Democrats who rally for racial equality. At least for the most part...
- tomlock 10y ago
  The fact that african-americans, who are demographically typically more "working-class" than other groups, voted that way directly contradicts his claim that the working class is "staunchly conservative". Obviously it isn't as simple as that.

frgtpsswrdlame 10y ago

>If you're smart enough, you'll get to a point sooner or later where you are no longer working class. You won't be getting paid a low hourly wage, nor will you be living paycheck to paycheck. 1) I just reject this, plenty of smart people are trapped by lifes circumstances. 2) If you grew up working class, you will probably always feel a tinge of that no matter how far out of poverty you grow. Class may grow out of differences in wealth but it's tendrils reach into all sorts of other areas including politics. 3) There are tons and tons of upper class conservatives. > Among college-educated whites, only 39 percent of men and 51 percent of women voted for Clinton. https://newrepublic.com/article/138754/blame-trumps-victory-college-educated-whites-not-working-class https://newrepublic.com/article/138754/blame-trumps-victory-...