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Islam is not the predominant problem in the US. Really not. Nearly half of US Americans don't believe in evolution. Christian fundamentalism causes much more ha
by sabertoothed 10y ago
Islam is not the predominant problem in the US. Really not. Nearly half of US Americans don't believe in evolution. Christian fundamentalism causes much more harm at the moment than islamists.
- iiii_iivii_iiii 10y agoChristian "fundamentalism" is quite benign in this country. Aside from the issue of abortion and perhaps stem cell research can you list some travesties caused by Christianity in America? The fastest growing religion is non religion.
- danhak 10y agoSending gay youth to psychologically damaging "conversion therapy" camps. Actively campaigning against the rights of gay individuals to marry or raise children. Physically abusing, disowning or abandoning gay children. There's a reason LGBT youth are 4x as likely to be homeless as their straight peers.
- dgellow 10y agoWait. Actively participating in a democratic process to support you opinions is a bad thing? edit: I will clarify. I was reacting to "Actively campaigning against the rights of gay individuals to marry or raise children". I'm for gay marriage. I'm also for allowing other people to campaign against my opinions.
- kevingadd 10y agoIt's weird how people can't agree on whether torturing teens or banning people from using bathrooms is an 'opinion', especially since doing those things has literally no upside for anyone, and it's 'solving' problems that don't exist.
- dgellow 10y agoSeems to be the definition of what an opinion is. A personal view on a given topic.
- mtberatwork 10y agoWhen the consequences of an opinion directly infringes on a person's civil rights, then yes.
- bmelton 10y agoThe consequences of such opinions almost always directly infringe on a person's civil rights in today's America. Increasing access to health care by raising taxes infringes upon economic freedom. Implementing gun control infringes the 2nd amendment. Keeping us safe from terrorists infringes on our fourth amendment rights. We have, for at least the past few decades, opted to largely ignore certain types of civil liberties, and just about every American is willing to infringe someone else's liberties to get something out of the democratic process that they care more about. I agree that gay marriage is good, and doesn't hurt anyone, and that so long as marriage is an institution, every American who wants to partake in it should be allowed to, whether gay, straight, trans or whatever -- but let's not pretend that the infringement of civil liberties at the ballot box is a trait unique or peculiar to those voting against gay marriage.
- mtberatwork 10y agoI think there are a few false dichotomies in your argument. Those who campaign against gay marriage are directly seeking to abolish the rights of gay couples that are afforded to straight couples. The consequences of this is the removal of legal protections and benefits, based solely on sexual orientation, which directly establishes gay individuals as second-class citizens. Yes, this is a bad thing. Contrasting this with your examples, taxation and gun control measures are certainly not infringing on your abilities to achieve economic freedom or gun ownership. Now certainly there are many infringements on civil rights being done in the name of keeping us safe from terrorists, to which I would also say this is a "bad thing", but then I'm certainly not pretending infringement "is a trait unique or peculiar to those voting against gay marriage."
- bmelton 10y agoThat very much depends on how charitably one interprets the law. If banning an AR-15 doesn't infringe my right to gun ownership, then in the same way, a ban on gay marriage doesn't infringe my right to marriage. I can still marry anyone (of the opposite sex) that I choose. Like I said, I'm not arguing on behalf of those who would ban gay marriage -- I think it's a very wrong-headed position to take, but that dosen't invalidate that it's quite a common position to take, and that the infringement of rights we don't like is a ritual practiced by left and right alike, and that the exploitation of the democratic process to effect those goals is not only common, but _routine_. The point is that despite democracy, the constitution and its provisions against being able to impose unconstitutional whimsies on populaces we don't like are supposed to encourage a tolerant society. The tolerance to let another person live their life in a way that you don't approve of is a pre-requisite to America functioning correctly. I'm not a historian, so I can't say if we've forgotten it, or we never really knew it, but it's definitely a lesson we need to learn or re-learn as appropriate. Tying back to OP, at least one manifestation of that ideal is perhaps not in routinely making fun of the whole rest of America to which you don't belong. Of course, it is your right to do so, but disparaging ideas with which you don't agree (as opposed to making substantive arguments through engaged civil discourse) is perhaps not the best strategy to prevent against the continuation of those routine infringements.
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- iiii_iivii_iiii 10y agohttps://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f6d_1435932798 https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f6d_1435932798 I am Jack's stunning lack of perspective.
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- danhak 10y agoWhat is your point? That nobody should be criticized for anything as long as ISIS is doing something worse? That's the standard for American society now?
- dgellow 10y agoThat's not what said the parent comment. Both religions have their (different set of) problems. But see how it goes when you criticize Islam. Criticize any other religion and you're fine, criticize Islam and you get a fatwa against you and become a racist xenophobic islamophobe.
- kevingadd 10y agoThis simply isn't accurate unless you live in an oppressive middle-east country with extremist Sharia law. Incidentally, some of those governments are in power because of coups and/or unrest triggered by western nations for our own purposes. Obviously there's no western equivalent to ISIS at present, but arguably that's because of the unique instability that exists in the middle east, partly as a result of western intervention. ISIS wouldn't exist unless we helped create it. If you look hard enough you can certainly find christian evangelical leaders who will call for the destruction of people who attack their faith. It's simply not normal and doesn't represent the vast majority of believers.
- dgellow 10y ago> This simply isn't accurate unless you live in an oppressive middle-east country with extremist Sharia law You don't have to live in a country under Sharia laws to get a fatwa against you. I mean, check this short list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatwas#Fatwas_promoting_violence_against_a_particular_individual https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatwas#Fatwas_promotin... For the rest of your post, I'm not sure to see how it's a response to my comment.
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- jsmith0295 10y agoEven if that were the case, that doesn't make it a good idea to align yourselves with Islamists as many on the left have.
- kevingadd 10y agoWhy not?
- jsmith0295 10y agoIt's a totalitarian ideology which is fundamentally opposed to liberal democracy. It shouldn't be tolerated for the same reasons Nazism shouldn't be tolerated.
- jcranmer 10y ago200 years ago, people said the exact same thing about Catholicism.
- pjc50 10y agoYou absolutely have to distinguish between Islam and Islamism, just like people need to distinguish between Zionism and simply being Jewish. Or for that matter between the various forms of Christianity and their levels of political involvement. People have a right to religious beliefs. They do not - must not - have the right to turn that into a legal enforcement of those beliefs on people who do not share them.
- jsmith0295 10y agoYeah, I should've been more clear, but that is what I was talking about.
- madengr 10y agoI agree, but the parent thread was about "other nations". Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. The fact that any religion is growing is worrisome, but Islam is probably the worst.
- autokad 10y ago300 million people believing in creationism is far less harmful than 1 person dropping bombs at a marathon. i believe in evolution, but you need to get over the idea there is some kind of innate golden age waiting to happen if only those annoying chiristains would believe in evolution. unless you are a biologist, believing in creationism has no impact on your life or how you do your job. i dont care if my brain surgeon believes in creationism. you know what i care about? how well they do brain surgery.
- adrianN 10y agoI'd argue that creationism is more dangerous, because it instills a general distrust in science. This leads to leaders who can openly claim that global warming is a Chinese hoax. Global warming will most likely kill several orders of magnitude more people than all Islamic terrorists taken together.
- swah 10y agoOne can trust science, but not scientists as if they're some special beings above corruption and what else.
- tobltobs 10y agobut then why this fixation on Islam and not on the heroin epidemic or mass shootings?
- supergreg 10y agoEasier to deal with a "them vs us" than an "us vs some of us"
- sabertoothed 10y agoEvolution was just an example to illustrate how far religious superstition reaches. Disbelief in science in general has a massive impact - causing deaths. Even disbelief in evolution causes deaths, e.g. if we don't do enough to deal with antibiotic resistance.