4 ms·

Why do people need someone to train them? Can they not teach themselves? 20 years ago we had books and CD-ROM magazines, now we have websites, youtube, and e-le

by tomc1985 10y ago

Why do people need someone to train them? Can they not teach themselves? 20 years ago we had books and CD-ROM magazines, now we have websites, youtube, and e-learning. The resources are and have been out there...

eli_gottlieb 10y ago
I started programming at age 11, so I taught myself a lot of stuff. To this day, nobody believes I know anything I haven't done inside a for-profit company. Self-teaching as a kid? Nah. Self-teaching as an adult? Still nah. Things I worked with in uni and grad-school? Hell naw.
- system16 10y ago
  > To this day, nobody believes I know anything I haven't done inside a for-profit company I have this same issue. I'm a PM who has been trying to move into a dev role for some time. For 6 years now I've self-designed, developed, and published several reasonably polished mobile apps and games that have decent reviews, and even some press. Interviewers always thank me for my time and tell me they are impressed with my projects, but "unfortunately we are looking for candidates with professional experience".
  - asimjalis 10y ago
    I went through the same path. I started with some personal projects. I used them to get part-time programming jobs in a university hospital. I used that to get a job at a desperate startup. I used that to get a job at a larger company. And so on. It is easier to move up gradually than in big leaps.
  - grogenaut 10y ago
    How many hours over those 6 years? I'd have no problem looping you but you probably wouldn't end up at the level you wanted based on your pm experience. Also coding solo and coding on a team are different. We spend a lot of time trying college hires or the few so developers we hire to work on teams and think about how others will intact and maintain your code. Feel free to email me. No idea what city you are in.
  - josh_fyi 10y ago
    > "unfortunately we are looking for candidates with professional experience". Just develop something on your job. Any role in a tech company, or beyond, has lots of opportunities for developing code. Bosses won't get in your way, they are hungry for automation. Then, once you have spent even a little time coding, your role as described in your resume accurately includes coding.
- tomc1985 10y ago
  You have to show stuff that's impressive. If they go "wow!" then I've found it doesn't matter where it came from (provided you actually made it)
Sir_Substance 10y ago
>Why do people need someone to train them? You should be asking the other question. People don't realize how poor professional IT training is. All APS[1] registered psychologists have to do 10 hours of formal training a month. It's mandatory to keep your accreditation. Employers give them the time off, and pay to send them to seminars on the latest developments in the field. About a quarter of a specialist doctors job is to stay up to day with the field. Hospitals bring in experts to lecture and send their staff to conferences. They have to, especially in the USA where healthcare income is proportional to success rates. The same is true for lawyers. Good lawyers must keep up to date with the latest developments in their countries case work, and again, legal firms that hire their lawyers on a salaried basis expect them to spend 30-50% of their time just reading case reports. It's pretty much only IT that expects it's employees to keep track of a fast-developing field in their spare time. So a) I don't think we're due anything less than anyone else and b) you're inevitably going to see some pretty serious attrition if you ask people to choose between a family/social life and their career. [1] http://www.psychology.org.au/ http://www.psychology.org.au/
- mncolinlee 10y ago
  The answer is simple. Developers are victims of their own success. Talented developers are in such high demand that book publishing cannot compete with what they can earn. Conferences and training vendors cannot afford to pay them properly based on the current industry model. Instead, you get a selection of developers at conferences who write and teach because they enjoy doing so. The training vendors only get what's left... People who need the job.
  - Sir_Substance 10y ago
    That's actually a super-persuasive theory, I'd buy that.

eli_gottlieb 10y ago

I started programming at age 11, so I taught myself a lot of stuff. To this day, nobody believes I know anything I haven't done inside a for-profit company. Self-teaching as a kid? Nah. Self-teaching as an adult? Still nah. Things I worked with in uni and grad-school? Hell naw.

system16 10y ago
> To this day, nobody believes I know anything I haven't done inside a for-profit company I have this same issue. I'm a PM who has been trying to move into a dev role for some time. For 6 years now I've self-designed, developed, and published several reasonably polished mobile apps and games that have decent reviews, and even some press. Interviewers always thank me for my time and tell me they are impressed with my projects, but "unfortunately we are looking for candidates with professional experience".
- asimjalis 10y ago
  I went through the same path. I started with some personal projects. I used them to get part-time programming jobs in a university hospital. I used that to get a job at a desperate startup. I used that to get a job at a larger company. And so on. It is easier to move up gradually than in big leaps.
- grogenaut 10y ago
  How many hours over those 6 years? I'd have no problem looping you but you probably wouldn't end up at the level you wanted based on your pm experience. Also coding solo and coding on a team are different. We spend a lot of time trying college hires or the few so developers we hire to work on teams and think about how others will intact and maintain your code. Feel free to email me. No idea what city you are in.
- josh_fyi 10y ago
  > "unfortunately we are looking for candidates with professional experience". Just develop something on your job. Any role in a tech company, or beyond, has lots of opportunities for developing code. Bosses won't get in your way, they are hungry for automation. Then, once you have spent even a little time coding, your role as described in your resume accurately includes coding.
tomc1985 10y ago
You have to show stuff that's impressive. If they go "wow!" then I've found it doesn't matter where it came from (provided you actually made it)

Sir_Substance 10y ago

>Why do people need someone to train them? You should be asking the other question. People don't realize how poor professional IT training is. All APS[1] registered psychologists have to do 10 hours of formal training a month. It's mandatory to keep your accreditation. Employers give them the time off, and pay to send them to seminars on the latest developments in the field. About a quarter of a specialist doctors job is to stay up to day with the field. Hospitals bring in experts to lecture and send their staff to conferences. They have to, especially in the USA where healthcare income is proportional to success rates. The same is true for lawyers. Good lawyers must keep up to date with the latest developments in their countries case work, and again, legal firms that hire their lawyers on a salaried basis expect them to spend 30-50% of their time just reading case reports. It's pretty much only IT that expects it's employees to keep track of a fast-developing field in their spare time. So a) I don't think we're due anything less than anyone else and b) you're inevitably going to see some pretty serious attrition if you ask people to choose between a family/social life and their career. [1] http://www.psychology.org.au/ http://www.psychology.org.au/

mncolinlee 10y ago
The answer is simple. Developers are victims of their own success. Talented developers are in such high demand that book publishing cannot compete with what they can earn. Conferences and training vendors cannot afford to pay them properly based on the current industry model. Instead, you get a selection of developers at conferences who write and teach because they enjoy doing so. The training vendors only get what's left... People who need the job.
- Sir_Substance 10y ago
  That's actually a super-persuasive theory, I'd buy that.