5 ms·

Man, I am real, real sick of the premise that I, as a professional, am somehow second rate due to the fact that I have interests outside of my work when I am no

by warcher 10y ago

Man, I am real, real sick of the premise that I, as a professional, am somehow second rate due to the fact that I have interests outside of my work when I am not working. I build a lot of shit, I am real good at my job, and I have survived multiple rounds of the predominant tech stack being totally purged, but when the whistle blows I am not in front of a keyboard. You guys should really consider cultivating interests outside your work. You'll be glad you did. And you'll also find that dedicating yourself to professional excellence just within the context of your daily work will yield more than enough opportunities to develop technologically. There's a lotta shit going on out there that's directly relevant to your work, you just gotta try it out.

Arizhel 10y ago
Speaking personally, I have a bunch of interests outside of work, many of which do not involve a keyboard. However, I also have an interest in programming projects, though I don't get as much time as I'd like to pursue them. Why would I want to do more programming at home when I do that all day at work? Simple: at work, I'm not working on my project, nor do I get to do it the way I want. At home, I can do whatever I want for my project, and I can do it any way I please, organizing my code however I want, using whatever OS on my computer I want, having whatever kind of workstation setup I want, and not having to use a computer that's hobbled by IT.
- warcher 10y ago
  Fair enough, I been doing the startup thing for so long, I forget about big company problems. My typical workday is probably a lot more wild west than the average coder's. I imagine there are a lot of people out there whose creativity is somewhat stifled in their work. Many times it takes everything I have to keep the lights on around here.
- mvindahl 10y ago
  This is a pretty accurate description of my motivation for doing side projects. Corporate pays well if you are willing to work on maintaining their existing projects; the catch is that you'll often be working with languages and frameworks which peaked a few years ago. Also, corporate isn't always a productive place. A lot of creative energy is lost on stuff like communication, process and management. Working on your own projects means getting to work with stuff that excites you, and to pave the road for future opportunities. Most of all, to have fun. That being said, my wife and kids have first dibs on my spare time these years and that's fine. I try to squeeze in half an hour of recreative programming a day.
- Arizhel 10y ago
  Just to add to this: at home, my computer is more like Usain Bolt (well maybe that's exaggerating a bit, but still). It runs the OS I like, with a monitor setup I like, the keyboard I like, etc. At work, my computer runs Windows, and Linux in a VM (but not the distro I want, but rather one which is pre-approved). So instead of a supreme athlete like Usain Bolt, it's like a 60-year old chain smoker who gobbles Twinkies. Then, add in various IT policies and software. This is like taking the Twinkie-eating chain smoker and doing to him what happened to the guy in that movie "Misery". And people wonder why I'd want to do more programming after work... For a car analogy, my computer at home is like a Ferrari. My computer at work is like a 1980s Ford Taurus. And adding IT's changes to it is like trying to make the Taurus tow an 80,000 pound semi-trailer.
glangdale 10y ago
... but you are second rate. Get over it. Professionalism has nothing to do with this. You are second-rate (or worse), as am I, because there is always someone who is as smart or smarter who is also single-mindedly more interested in the topics of our work. For every discipline there is an Erdős, who will make the rest of us look like fools and dilettantes. Tonight, when I knock off, I'm going to put on a silly cotton outfit and spend a couple hours grappling. There is absolutely no way that such a hobby would make me better at what I do than some shadow version of myself that instead spent those 2 hours learning about Galois Field Theory or advances in compiler optimization or some such. Next to that person, I am second-rate and will always be happy to be so, but I'm not going to get mad and bitch about how that sort of person does better than I do at work.
- Retra 10y ago
  I think you're misunderstanding. The problem is not that there are very good people to be second to, it's that people are cargo-culting on their observable characteristics and thus mis-valuing people. One doesn't become Erdős just by carrying around math books and sleeping on couches all the time, after all.
- throwaway9475 10y ago
  By that logic, since there is always someone as smart as or smarter than the next person, then by induction everyone is second-rate except some mythical super hero who is absolutely the best in a given field. You know what happens to people who put in those two extra hours of work every night? They go to work the next day and still get paid the same amount of money as if they hadn't. Then they wake up at 40 wondering why they wasted decades doing extra work for the same salary instead of enjoying life and doing something, /anything/, besides staring at a computer all day. 99.9% of people don't have to care about being second-rate, or even third-rate or fourth-rate, because most developers aren't Paul Graham and they aren't Saving The World (TM). They're feeding their families and enjoying their hobbies outside the hours of 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM. And that's okay. Even so, just because they don't print out Linux kernel mailing list e-mails and snort Dennis Ritchie's ashes with them doesn't mean they're second-rate.
pmiller2 10y ago
I like the cut of your jib. I am wondering, though, how does one keep current without spending copious off hours, when there's no way to learn anything not relevant to work on the job?
- warcher 10y ago
  I mean, I grant that there are places where there's just nothing to do, or more specifically, the organization doesn't allow you to fully apply yourself, but man, there are a million shops out there with their hair on fire. If you feel like you could do more, I promise there are people that would be happy to feed you as much as you can stand, haha. You do native mobile by any chance? :)

by warcher 10y ago

Arizhel 10y ago

Speaking personally, I have a bunch of interests outside of work, many of which do not involve a keyboard. However, I also have an interest in programming projects, though I don't get as much time as I'd like to pursue them. Why would I want to do more programming at home when I do that all day at work? Simple: at work, I'm not working on my project, nor do I get to do it the way I want. At home, I can do whatever I want for my project, and I can do it any way I please, organizing my code however I want, using whatever OS on my computer I want, having whatever kind of workstation setup I want, and not having to use a computer that's hobbled by IT.

warcher 10y ago
Fair enough, I been doing the startup thing for so long, I forget about big company problems. My typical workday is probably a lot more wild west than the average coder's. I imagine there are a lot of people out there whose creativity is somewhat stifled in their work. Many times it takes everything I have to keep the lights on around here.
mvindahl 10y ago
This is a pretty accurate description of my motivation for doing side projects. Corporate pays well if you are willing to work on maintaining their existing projects; the catch is that you'll often be working with languages and frameworks which peaked a few years ago. Also, corporate isn't always a productive place. A lot of creative energy is lost on stuff like communication, process and management. Working on your own projects means getting to work with stuff that excites you, and to pave the road for future opportunities. Most of all, to have fun. That being said, my wife and kids have first dibs on my spare time these years and that's fine. I try to squeeze in half an hour of recreative programming a day.
Arizhel 10y ago
Just to add to this: at home, my computer is more like Usain Bolt (well maybe that's exaggerating a bit, but still). It runs the OS I like, with a monitor setup I like, the keyboard I like, etc. At work, my computer runs Windows, and Linux in a VM (but not the distro I want, but rather one which is pre-approved). So instead of a supreme athlete like Usain Bolt, it's like a 60-year old chain smoker who gobbles Twinkies. Then, add in various IT policies and software. This is like taking the Twinkie-eating chain smoker and doing to him what happened to the guy in that movie "Misery". And people wonder why I'd want to do more programming after work... For a car analogy, my computer at home is like a Ferrari. My computer at work is like a 1980s Ford Taurus. And adding IT's changes to it is like trying to make the Taurus tow an 80,000 pound semi-trailer.

glangdale 10y ago

... but you are second rate. Get over it. Professionalism has nothing to do with this. You are second-rate (or worse), as am I, because there is always someone who is as smart or smarter who is also single-mindedly more interested in the topics of our work. For every discipline there is an Erdős, who will make the rest of us look like fools and dilettantes. Tonight, when I knock off, I'm going to put on a silly cotton outfit and spend a couple hours grappling. There is absolutely no way that such a hobby would make me better at what I do than some shadow version of myself that instead spent those 2 hours learning about Galois Field Theory or advances in compiler optimization or some such. Next to that person, I am second-rate and will always be happy to be so, but I'm not going to get mad and bitch about how that sort of person does better than I do at work.

Retra 10y ago
I think you're misunderstanding. The problem is not that there are very good people to be second to, it's that people are cargo-culting on their observable characteristics and thus mis-valuing people. One doesn't become Erdős just by carrying around math books and sleeping on couches all the time, after all.
throwaway9475 10y ago
By that logic, since there is always someone as smart as or smarter than the next person, then by induction everyone is second-rate except some mythical super hero who is absolutely the best in a given field. You know what happens to people who put in those two extra hours of work every night? They go to work the next day and still get paid the same amount of money as if they hadn't. Then they wake up at 40 wondering why they wasted decades doing extra work for the same salary instead of enjoying life and doing something, /anything/, besides staring at a computer all day. 99.9% of people don't have to care about being second-rate, or even third-rate or fourth-rate, because most developers aren't Paul Graham and they aren't Saving The World (TM). They're feeding their families and enjoying their hobbies outside the hours of 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM. And that's okay. Even so, just because they don't print out Linux kernel mailing list e-mails and snort Dennis Ritchie's ashes with them doesn't mean they're second-rate.

pmiller2 10y ago

I like the cut of your jib. I am wondering, though, how does one keep current without spending copious off hours, when there's no way to learn anything not relevant to work on the job?

warcher 10y ago
I mean, I grant that there are places where there's just nothing to do, or more specifically, the organization doesn't allow you to fully apply yourself, but man, there are a million shops out there with their hair on fire. If you feel like you could do more, I promise there are people that would be happy to feed you as much as you can stand, haha. You do native mobile by any chance? :)