5 ms·

As an Indian guy, I've met my fair share of the type of developers you described. They don't take work home, don't have any particular passion for the job, and

by exergy 10y ago

As an Indian guy, I've met my fair share of the type of developers you described. They don't take work home, don't have any particular passion for the job, and are biding time before they can go do an MBA and move on to investment banking or consulting with the Big 4. Just as an aside, your comment was among the most complete I've ever seen. It addressed almost every caveat that I could have though up!

user5994461 10y ago
> They don't take work home, You're not paid for doing that. Please stop.
- jackmott 10y ago
  well, some people are paid for that.
- freyr 10y ago
  Some people do that and get promoted, and in the end get paid well. You can't stop that; there are hustlers in every industry and always have been. It's only a problem if the employer starts treating this as the norm, and expects to sacrifice their personal time. Then it's time to find a new employer.
  - user5994461 10y ago
    > Some people do that and get promoted, and in the end get paid well. The fastest way to get promoted when you are young or low on the ladder is to leave your company, not to climb up. Your future companies won't know and won't care what time you put in.
    - jholman 10y ago
      You're right that for most people the fastest route to advancement requires changing companies, and you're right that future companies are unlikely to care (much) or know (much). But you're wrong in your conclusion. The (good) reason to take work home is not to suck up. That's crappy strategy. The good reason to take work home is that it's practice. The sooner you put in the hours, the sooner you can get-and-keep the better jobs. Obviously there's a limit to personal endurance, and so just pushing yourself to grind out 80 low-quality hours per week is insanity. But taking work home, selected with the intention of improving your own skills, is often good advice for getting ahead. Hustle correlates with prosperity. You're right, though, that if _I_ take work home, that you, user5994461, are thereby disadvantaged in the market. Thus I assume that your imperious demand that others not pursue career success is a cynical ploy to improve your position.
      - user5994461 10y ago
        Indeed, you working more is lowering the bar for employers, you're helping them to pay less and abuse their workers. (Let's ignore for a minute that I don't work for these employers). Since career success is linked firsts and foremost to negotiating offers and following a career plan, I demand that you negotiate better and follow a more aggressive growth plan! It will give you more returns for less efforts than long hours. I am on the high end of the spectrum, I actually need others to pursue their career success better in a cynical ploy to improve my position. ;)
- Trundle 10y ago
  You're paid under the assumption that you're generating a certain amount of value. That could be achieved, or appear to be achieved, by taking work home.
vikascoder 10y ago
Another Indian guy here. Can we limit the broad paint brushes here and realize that the circle of developers you may have exposed to is solely your experience? I think you are leaning on to some assumption that other "Indian" developers are like this. Well if you are located in India you can say the same thing for "all" professions right? And whose fault is it that mostly all the developers you come across seem to you like feet daggers? Maybe you can work in a better company than you are in where you actually see great developers? It just grates on my senses when someone just paints a whole section of people with one huge ill informed paint brush. I am sure you have your reasons but also realize that you haven't met a huge amount of people to make that assumption, or have interacted with people in other great places to work or there are vast number of great Indian engineering talent working in a lot of countries. An ill informed opinion only makes the quality of information degrade on this forum. And seriously unless you are a Nobel prize winner yourself there is no point in judging others.
- bogomipz 10y ago
  >"And seriously unless you are a Nobel prize winner yourself there is no point in judging others." I didn't see the OP was judging anyone but describing a type they perceived was only interested in development as a stepping stone to something else. In fact you yourself seem to be completely judgmental and also condescending telling someone: >" ... you haven't met a huge amount of people to make that assumption, or have interacted with people in other great places to work" You seem to have no issue passing your own judgement however by telling someone that their opinion is "degrading this forum." That's a pretty rotten thing to say.
  - seaknoll 10y ago
    I think vikascoder makes a really good point, actually. The fact that the poster was Indian was entirely irrelevant except in the context of stereotyping all the "other" Indian programmers. I found the post offensive on behalf of anyone who is tired of lazily getting lumped into any group. Despite not being an Indian programmer.
- exergy 10y ago

by exergy 10y ago

user5994461 10y ago

> They don't take work home, You're not paid for doing that. Please stop.

jackmott 10y ago
well, some people are paid for that.
freyr 10y ago
Some people do that and get promoted, and in the end get paid well. You can't stop that; there are hustlers in every industry and always have been. It's only a problem if the employer starts treating this as the norm, and expects to sacrifice their personal time. Then it's time to find a new employer.
- user5994461 10y ago
  > Some people do that and get promoted, and in the end get paid well. The fastest way to get promoted when you are young or low on the ladder is to leave your company, not to climb up. Your future companies won't know and won't care what time you put in.
  - jholman 10y ago
    You're right that for most people the fastest route to advancement requires changing companies, and you're right that future companies are unlikely to care (much) or know (much). But you're wrong in your conclusion. The (good) reason to take work home is not to suck up. That's crappy strategy. The good reason to take work home is that it's practice. The sooner you put in the hours, the sooner you can get-and-keep the better jobs. Obviously there's a limit to personal endurance, and so just pushing yourself to grind out 80 low-quality hours per week is insanity. But taking work home, selected with the intention of improving your own skills, is often good advice for getting ahead. Hustle correlates with prosperity. You're right, though, that if _I_ take work home, that you, user5994461, are thereby disadvantaged in the market. Thus I assume that your imperious demand that others not pursue career success is a cynical ploy to improve your position.
    - user5994461 10y ago
      Indeed, you working more is lowering the bar for employers, you're helping them to pay less and abuse their workers. (Let's ignore for a minute that I don't work for these employers). Since career success is linked firsts and foremost to negotiating offers and following a career plan, I demand that you negotiate better and follow a more aggressive growth plan! It will give you more returns for less efforts than long hours. I am on the high end of the spectrum, I actually need others to pursue their career success better in a cynical ploy to improve my position. ;)
Trundle 10y ago
You're paid under the assumption that you're generating a certain amount of value. That could be achieved, or appear to be achieved, by taking work home.

vikascoder 10y ago

Another Indian guy here. Can we limit the broad paint brushes here and realize that the circle of developers you may have exposed to is solely your experience? I think you are leaning on to some assumption that other "Indian" developers are like this. Well if you are located in India you can say the same thing for "all" professions right? And whose fault is it that mostly all the developers you come across seem to you like feet daggers? Maybe you can work in a better company than you are in where you actually see great developers? It just grates on my senses when someone just paints a whole section of people with one huge ill informed paint brush. I am sure you have your reasons but also realize that you haven't met a huge amount of people to make that assumption, or have interacted with people in other great places to work or there are vast number of great Indian engineering talent working in a lot of countries. An ill informed opinion only makes the quality of information degrade on this forum. And seriously unless you are a Nobel prize winner yourself there is no point in judging others.

bogomipz 10y ago
>"And seriously unless you are a Nobel prize winner yourself there is no point in judging others." I didn't see the OP was judging anyone but describing a type they perceived was only interested in development as a stepping stone to something else. In fact you yourself seem to be completely judgmental and also condescending telling someone: >" ... you haven't met a huge amount of people to make that assumption, or have interacted with people in other great places to work" You seem to have no issue passing your own judgement however by telling someone that their opinion is "degrading this forum." That's a pretty rotten thing to say.
- seaknoll 10y ago
  I think vikascoder makes a really good point, actually. The fact that the poster was Indian was entirely irrelevant except in the context of stereotyping all the "other" Indian programmers. I found the post offensive on behalf of anyone who is tired of lazily getting lumped into any group. Despite not being an Indian programmer.
exergy 10y ago