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For those who need the structure of a formal course, or who want a CS degree for career reasons, the University of London's International program is a great opt

For those who need the structure of a formal course, or who want a CS degree for career reasons, the University of London's International program is a great option - it's very flexible, so easy to combine with full-time work, and costs around $2500 per year for 3 years. I'm around 2/3 of the way through, and find it helps force me to learn things I know I need to know, but might not make the time for otherwise http://www.londoninternational.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate/goldsmiths/bsc-computing-information-systems-bsc-diploma-work-entry-route http://www.londoninternational.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate/g... The creative computing has a slightly more art/graphics emphasis, but is still rigorous: http://www.londoninternational.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate/goldsmiths/bsc-creative-computing-bsc-diploma-work-entry-route http://www.londoninternational.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate/g...

no_wizard 10y ago
Is this a BS that would be recognizable? I gotta ask. I also gotta ask: Is it rigorous? Not just time wise. I want a program that will be stimulating (even if brutal). For clarity: when I say recognizable, I mean, we aren't talking some for profit online uni like DeVry. I'm not exactly looking for Stanford level, just something that would has a respectable reputation for actually teaching. edit: I really don't know if I'm asking this question in a way that is non-aggressive, so I apologize in advance. I'm very interested in this (I never heard of it before) and I'm just wondering how much you like it.
- chrisseaton 10y ago
  Are you asking if a degree conferred by the University of London is more recognisable than one from a place like DeVry? Yes - colleges of the University of London are frequently in the top ten of all universities in the world.
  - nagvx 10y ago
    However, LSoE is not the same as Goldsmiths, which is the college mentioned here. London colleges are generally good but there is quite a lot of variance - between "great" and "the very best".
    - no_wizard 10y ago
      I'll take great. I'm okay with that. even 3500 USD is a steal for something like that. I wonder if the cost is so low because they don't get any grants/subsidies from anything other than the UK government, so this is pretty much pure profit from a administrative perspective?
      - vmasto 10y ago
        I'm kind of skeptical about the total cost, I've been looking at the fees section of the course's website (http://www.londoninternational.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate/goldsmiths/bsc-computing-information-systems-bsc-diploma-work-entry-route#fees http://www.londoninternational.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate/g...) and it looks it's upwards to $7000 per annum for the BSc, or I'm missing something.
        no_wizard 10y ago
        I believe thats total cost of degree, if I'm reading this right, when converted, is 6921 USD (or 7K). Which works out to less than 2500 a year (which is what I was working on). I figure, if you start count some additional unexpected expenses somewhere, 2500 is reasonable. Still a steal. From what it sounds like and upon doing more research, is a all around solid uni. I wonder too if its too good to be true myself. Haven't found evidence to the contrary yet. I WOULD LOVE some input from anyone who actually studied this, hopefully from the USA? though any input is good.
        ghufran_syed 10y ago
        No, it really is around $7000 for the whole thing! It used to be more like $7500, but the british pound dropped after Brexit :) I live in the SF Bay area, and I am doing the BS in Computing and Information Systems. My daughter is doing the Creative Computing BS, while working full-time as a software engineer in SF - she actually got a transfer place at UCLA to study math a few years ago, but decided she'd rather learn while working, and this lets her do that. Happy to answer any questions, here or by PM.
        10y ago
  - vmasto 10y ago
    I think they're asking more like what's the difference between this degree (which is remote) and an "actual" degree in UoL where you attend normally and physically as a student. That's also my question.
  - ghufran_syed 10y ago
    The degree you get is the same one you would get offline from the University of London - in fact, you can transfer to the final year of the offline degree if you're willing to pay the (much higher) tuition costs. That suggests that the curriculum and marking standards are the same, in fact I believe that the exams themselves are actually the same as the in-person exams. http://www.qmul.ac.uk/international/international-students/entryrequirements// http://www.qmul.ac.uk/international/international-students/e...
- peteretep 10y ago
  There's also: https://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/softeng/ https://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/softeng/ A lot more expensive (£25,000 all-in, part-time over four years), a reasonably well-known university, it's an MSc, flexible curriculum, no undergrad degree needed.
  - ggambetta 10y ago
    "Reasonably well-known university" XD
    - jumasheff 10y ago
      It's in top 50 in UK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rankings_of_universities_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rankings_of_universities_in_th...
      - peteretep 10y ago
        And in the top 500 in World Rankings too!
      - ggambetta 10y ago
        I'm aware. I live in London. I just found the idea of calling Oxford, an almost thousand-year-old university "reasonably well know" absolutely hilarious!
        no_wizard 10y ago
        I admit two things here. 1) Deep ignorance of British Cultural and Educational institutions. I honestly didn't equate this with "University of London is world class, you idiot" type thinking. I don't know why, I think it comes from the fact that some universities want to seem more legit, at least in the US, will attempt to sort of use a well known universities naming scheme. Like [American University](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_University https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_University) which is has a solid reputation as a learning institution and [American Public University](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Public_University_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Public_University_Sys...) which for all I can tell, attempts to ride the back of the name of American University, but is not exactly known for its quality of education. 2) Given that, I felt uncomfortable even given some research poking around I was doing stating anything too affirmatively.
- ghufran_syed 10y ago
  The university of london international programme (used to be called the external programme) has been around for more than 100 years, these are some of the alumni (not in CS though!) http://www.londoninternational.ac.uk/our-global-reputation/our-history/notable-past-students?page=1 http://www.londoninternational.ac.uk/our-global-reputation/o...
littleweep 10y ago
Just curious -- where do you live? UK? US? Other?
- no_wizard 10y ago
  looks like they have testing centers around the US: http://www.londoninternational.ac.uk/distance-and-flexible-learning/how-you-study http://www.londoninternational.ac.uk/distance-and-flexible-l... http://www.londoninternational.ac.uk/sites/default/files/documents/usa_exam_centres.pdf http://www.londoninternational.ac.uk/sites/default/files/doc... This is very interesting.
  - ghufran_syed 10y ago
    Yeah, I did my exams last year at Daly City library, and this year I'll be going to San Jose State university to do them.
  - ghufran_syed 10y ago
    btw, this is the link to the various course guides (has the table of contents and the first one or two chapters for each). Some of the material is a little outdated (e.g Computer organization and architecture doesn't cover flash memory), but I feel like it's pretty easy self-study the little bit of more recent technology that they might not have included yet. Final year includes "artificial intelligence", "natural language processing" and "neural networks". Haven't got there yet, so can't comment on the material covered. Also, it's worth noting that UK degrees follow a different pattern from the US, each year the mnaterial gets increasingly hard, and also gets weighted higher in terms of the final grade. So an A in a final year course is worth much more than an A in a first year course, which sort of makes sense to me. http://www.londoninternational.ac.uk/sample-study-materials-computing-programmes http://www.londoninternational.ac.uk/sample-study-materials-...
- ghufran_syed 10y ago
  California
vmasto 10y ago
Extremely interesting. How much time do you need to devote for a successful completion in 3 years per your experience? Is there any way to advance faster? Edit: The website estimates about 250 hours for each course, at four courses per year, that's 1000 hours per nine months, it looks like the estimate is at least 4 hours of study per day (weekends included) for the duration of the course (about 9 months). How accurate is this? Also, do you have to be physically present for the exams?
- ghufran_syed 10y ago
  I think that's probably correct. 4 courses per year is equivalent to 30 semester units in the US (2 semesters of 15 units each). You can't do it in less than 3 years, due to the university rules which won't let you take more than 4 courses per year.
- recon517 10y ago
  You can study from 3 to 8 years depending on how much free time you have. There are only three deadlines each year - two for coursework assignments and one for exams. It takes me at most 5 days of study per course before each coursework and before an exam, so 15 days of study per course. You can take up to 4 full or up to 6 half courses per year. And yes, you have to be physically present at an exam, but not necessary in London - there are examination centres all over the world.
recon517 10y ago
Current BSc Computing and Information Systems student here. Program structure, flexibility and exam structure are really great. But there were some truly horrific quality control and student support issues, so cannot advise this program to others. I would switch to another program in a moment, but I am already in the last year.
wishinghand 10y ago
There is also a similar offering from Georgia Tech: https://www.omscs.gatech.edu/home https://www.omscs.gatech.edu/home

no_wizard 10y ago

Is this a BS that would be recognizable? I gotta ask. I also gotta ask: Is it rigorous? Not just time wise. I want a program that will be stimulating (even if brutal). For clarity: when I say recognizable, I mean, we aren't talking some for profit online uni like DeVry. I'm not exactly looking for Stanford level, just something that would has a respectable reputation for actually teaching. edit: I really don't know if I'm asking this question in a way that is non-aggressive, so I apologize in advance. I'm very interested in this (I never heard of it before) and I'm just wondering how much you like it.

chrisseaton 10y ago
Are you asking if a degree conferred by the University of London is more recognisable than one from a place like DeVry? Yes - colleges of the University of London are frequently in the top ten of all universities in the world.
- nagvx 10y ago
  However, LSoE is not the same as Goldsmiths, which is the college mentioned here. London colleges are generally good but there is quite a lot of variance - between "great" and "the very best".
  - no_wizard 10y ago
    I'll take great. I'm okay with that. even 3500 USD is a steal for something like that. I wonder if the cost is so low because they don't get any grants/subsidies from anything other than the UK government, so this is pretty much pure profit from a administrative perspective?
    - vmasto 10y ago
      I'm kind of skeptical about the total cost, I've been looking at the fees section of the course's website (http://www.londoninternational.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate/goldsmiths/bsc-computing-information-systems-bsc-diploma-work-entry-route#fees http://www.londoninternational.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate/g...) and it looks it's upwards to $7000 per annum for the BSc, or I'm missing something.
      - no_wizard 10y ago
        I believe thats total cost of degree, if I'm reading this right, when converted, is 6921 USD (or 7K). Which works out to less than 2500 a year (which is what I was working on). I figure, if you start count some additional unexpected expenses somewhere, 2500 is reasonable. Still a steal. From what it sounds like and upon doing more research, is a all around solid uni. I wonder too if its too good to be true myself. Haven't found evidence to the contrary yet. I WOULD LOVE some input from anyone who actually studied this, hopefully from the USA? though any input is good.
      - ghufran_syed 10y ago
        No, it really is around $7000 for the whole thing! It used to be more like $7500, but the british pound dropped after Brexit :) I live in the SF Bay area, and I am doing the BS in Computing and Information Systems. My daughter is doing the Creative Computing BS, while working full-time as a software engineer in SF - she actually got a transfer place at UCLA to study math a few years ago, but decided she'd rather learn while working, and this lets her do that. Happy to answer any questions, here or by PM.
        10y ago
- vmasto 10y ago
  I think they're asking more like what's the difference between this degree (which is remote) and an "actual" degree in UoL where you attend normally and physically as a student. That's also my question.
- ghufran_syed 10y ago
  The degree you get is the same one you would get offline from the University of London - in fact, you can transfer to the final year of the offline degree if you're willing to pay the (much higher) tuition costs. That suggests that the curriculum and marking standards are the same, in fact I believe that the exams themselves are actually the same as the in-person exams. http://www.qmul.ac.uk/international/international-students/entryrequirements// http://www.qmul.ac.uk/international/international-students/e...
peteretep 10y ago
There's also: https://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/softeng/ https://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/softeng/ A lot more expensive (£25,000 all-in, part-time over four years), a reasonably well-known university, it's an MSc, flexible curriculum, no undergrad degree needed.
- ggambetta 10y ago
  "Reasonably well-known university" XD
  - jumasheff 10y ago
    It's in top 50 in UK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rankings_of_universities_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rankings_of_universities_in_th...
    - peteretep 10y ago
      And in the top 500 in World Rankings too!
    - ggambetta 10y ago
      I'm aware. I live in London. I just found the idea of calling Oxford, an almost thousand-year-old university "reasonably well know" absolutely hilarious!
      - no_wizard 10y ago
        I admit two things here. 1) Deep ignorance of British Cultural and Educational institutions. I honestly didn't equate this with "University of London is world class, you idiot" type thinking. I don't know why, I think it comes from the fact that some universities want to seem more legit, at least in the US, will attempt to sort of use a well known universities naming scheme. Like [American University](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_University https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_University) which is has a solid reputation as a learning institution and [American Public University](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Public_University_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Public_University_Sys...) which for all I can tell, attempts to ride the back of the name of American University, but is not exactly known for its quality of education. 2) Given that, I felt uncomfortable even given some research poking around I was doing stating anything too affirmatively.
ghufran_syed 10y ago
The university of london international programme (used to be called the external programme) has been around for more than 100 years, these are some of the alumni (not in CS though!) http://www.londoninternational.ac.uk/our-global-reputation/our-history/notable-past-students?page=1 http://www.londoninternational.ac.uk/our-global-reputation/o...

littleweep 10y ago

Just curious -- where do you live? UK? US? Other?

no_wizard 10y ago
looks like they have testing centers around the US: http://www.londoninternational.ac.uk/distance-and-flexible-learning/how-you-study http://www.londoninternational.ac.uk/distance-and-flexible-l... http://www.londoninternational.ac.uk/sites/default/files/documents/usa_exam_centres.pdf http://www.londoninternational.ac.uk/sites/default/files/doc... This is very interesting.
- ghufran_syed 10y ago
  Yeah, I did my exams last year at Daly City library, and this year I'll be going to San Jose State university to do them.
- ghufran_syed 10y ago
  btw, this is the link to the various course guides (has the table of contents and the first one or two chapters for each). Some of the material is a little outdated (e.g Computer organization and architecture doesn't cover flash memory), but I feel like it's pretty easy self-study the little bit of more recent technology that they might not have included yet. Final year includes "artificial intelligence", "natural language processing" and "neural networks". Haven't got there yet, so can't comment on the material covered. Also, it's worth noting that UK degrees follow a different pattern from the US, each year the mnaterial gets increasingly hard, and also gets weighted higher in terms of the final grade. So an A in a final year course is worth much more than an A in a first year course, which sort of makes sense to me. http://www.londoninternational.ac.uk/sample-study-materials-computing-programmes http://www.londoninternational.ac.uk/sample-study-materials-...
ghufran_syed 10y ago
California

vmasto 10y ago

Extremely interesting. How much time do you need to devote for a successful completion in 3 years per your experience? Is there any way to advance faster? Edit: The website estimates about 250 hours for each course, at four courses per year, that's 1000 hours per nine months, it looks like the estimate is at least 4 hours of study per day (weekends included) for the duration of the course (about 9 months). How accurate is this? Also, do you have to be physically present for the exams?

ghufran_syed 10y ago
I think that's probably correct. 4 courses per year is equivalent to 30 semester units in the US (2 semesters of 15 units each). You can't do it in less than 3 years, due to the university rules which won't let you take more than 4 courses per year.
recon517 10y ago
You can study from 3 to 8 years depending on how much free time you have. There are only three deadlines each year - two for coursework assignments and one for exams. It takes me at most 5 days of study per course before each coursework and before an exam, so 15 days of study per course. You can take up to 4 full or up to 6 half courses per year. And yes, you have to be physically present at an exam, but not necessary in London - there are examination centres all over the world.

recon517 10y ago

Current BSc Computing and Information Systems student here. Program structure, flexibility and exam structure are really great. But there were some truly horrific quality control and student support issues, so cannot advise this program to others. I would switch to another program in a moment, but I am already in the last year.

wishinghand 10y ago

There is also a similar offering from Georgia Tech: https://www.omscs.gatech.edu/home https://www.omscs.gatech.edu/home