5 ms·

As you might imagine, this article is raising a lot of issues for me since I took a break from programming and drove a city bus in Las Vegas. Now I am back to p

As you might imagine, this article is raising a lot of issues for me since I took a break from programming and drove a city bus in Las Vegas. Now I am back to programming (before C++:PHP3:ES3, after:PHP7:ES7:Node.js) Driving a bus is a most interesting proposition and I can say without a doubt it was the most satisfying job I ever had. I had to learn street smarts and apply them effectively. As someone without them, this was both a challenge and a thrill. I'm not driving a city bus now because of high blood pressure. Some thoughts: OP's Dad doesn't want admit to his son he prefers driving a bus. OR OP is assuming he doesn't when he actually does. OP's Dad certainly knows he is displaying a remarkable lack of initiative when it comes to learning new languages and it sounds like he's manufactured some excuses to satisfy the family. Bus driving is an addictive Zen like experience, I-kid-you-not, so I might be right.

fpoling 10y ago
I few years ago I met a I guy who run some small business and for few hours per week drove a buss, mostly at night shifts. He told me that he had to do that for little extra cash and to keep his bus driver skills in case the business would not work. But I got an impression that he just enjoyed the driving.
yardie 10y ago
I've met so many people who Uber/Lyft for similar reasons. They could be doing their regular job and making 2X$/hour but instead are driving make $X/hour. And I get it. It's the end of the working day and their job is done. So they do something else for a few hours, make a little money. Keep their sanity and come back to work the next morning.
pasquinelli 10y ago
I recently went from programming to janitorial and I've been really happy with it.
- gerry_shaw 10y ago
  Is this serious and if so can you explain why?
  - flukus 10y ago
    At least when you clean up shit you're boss can tell.
- Cofike 10y ago
  I also am interested in this story.
- dorfsmay 10y ago
  I can see the attraction to janitorial work: no politics, a defined scope, knowing when you're done, not taking problem home, no reinventing and learning the new wheel every 2 years, etc... I'd miss the building something part, and the intellectual challenges, be it understanding the business logic better, or debugging complex issue. But, to be honest, unless I'm very mis-informed, the difference in renumeration would be the first issue I'd face.
  - flukus 10y ago
    > But, to be honest, unless I'm very mis-informed, the difference in renumeration would be the first issue I'd face. Contract based cleaning was actually fairly lucrative not too long ago, particularly for overnight cleaning. It paid 2-3 times (maybe more) what you would make from being employed as janitorial staff. This all changed when large managed service companies started to be a thing and a local contract cleaner couldn't compete with professional salesmen. In turn it meant that well paying cleaning jobs became a thing of the past. Source: My father ran his own one or two man cleaning business. He was making much more at this in 1990 than when he retired (as an employee) in 2010.
- mistermann 10y ago
  I didn't much care for janitorial work, but man I'd jump at the chance to go pump gas in a full service gas station again, if I could keep my IT salary of course.
  - Razengan 10y ago
    Work on your own projects from a laptop between pumping gas?
    - beisner 10y ago
      Then the gas company owns your IP.
myowncrapulence 10y ago
Bus driving is an addictive Zen like experience The movie "Paterson" addresses this exact situation. A poet who drives a bus. Very good movie I recommend anyone interested in this topic to watch it.
- sn41 10y ago
  Up to the age of thirty, I used to get on the bus, go to the terminal point, and come back. To clear my thoughts. I've tried this both in India and while I was a student in the US. Found it immensely beneficial. Unfortunately I live in a city which lacks public transport, so can't do it any longer.
  - plasticchris 10y ago
    Reminds me of a story about Poincaré and the contributions of public transit to mathematics.
  - kbart 10y ago
    Funny, I've found that the best place for me to concentrate is on a bus or train, provided there's not too much noise around. During one hour journey I can usually accomplish more work than 3-4 h in home/office.
- labrador 10y ago
  Thanks for the recommendation! It's a newer release by the great director Jim Jarmaush so I bet it's really good.
WhitneyLand 10y ago
It might not be lack of initiative; It might be just the old fashioned mindset that companies are a lifelong partner in your career and retirement. After all, if not ever true, it was true enough to be a successful strategy for a generation of people. Those with pension funds intact did ok. There was no final warning bell for everyone that from here on out you are 100% responsible for maintaining a skill set. It was so gradual it could have (and was by a lot of people) been missed. I think the lesson is broader that passion for writing code. With equal intelligence and resources anyone will likely be crushed by someone with more motivation. How many scientists did great things because of insane drive bordering on or crossing into obsession? To me the lesson is there is not one simplistic goal (learn coding, get a degree, etc) that will bring you success in life, monetary or otherwise. We have to be diligent through our lives because not only are the rules elusive, they're likely changing as we learn them.
icantdrive55 10y ago
My best friend in high school step father got a great job in San Francisco. He was working in management, and it wasen't stressful. He had a nice apartment in the Marina. It seemed like he had everything. I knew he was slightly unhappy, but I thought it would pass. His newly married wife wouldn't leave Brooklyn, NY. His stepson, whom was my best friend, and living with him, kept telling him she will eventually come to San Francisco. One night he came clean. 'He told us it's not your mother not comming here--don't get me wrong--I am dissapointed with her; it's I miss driving a cab! 'I sit in these fancy restaurants overlooking the Bay Area, with guys I can't relate to, and just wish I was home driving my cab. I wish I never took this job.' Two years went by, and he was still talking about that cab. The company in San Francisco was constantly throwing more money at him, but he was never happy. I lost touch with him after high school. To this day, I'm still shocked. This was in the ninties when driving a cab was more dangerious than it is today, and paid horribly. (Over the years, I learned that I'm miserable in some jobs people think are great, and visa versa. One man's fantasy is another man's hell? And that goes for relationships too.)
developer2 10y ago
>> OP's Dad certainly knows he is displaying a remarkable lack of initiative when it comes to learning new languages and it sounds like he's manufactured some excuses to satisfy the family No, OP's dad is sick and tired of working for an industry that drowns him with its stress, misery, and corporate bullshit. The reason for finding an excuse to give your family is that they are expecting you provide them with a/an (upper?) middle class lifestyle. Screw your happiness and reduced levels of stress; what matters most to them is your paycheque and what it can offer them. For some people, $20+ more per hour is not worth rotting away in a cubicle, while being treated like a replaceable nobody, always being belittled like a child at every review for "not meeting company goals", all the while being part of the very reason the company is making millions of dollars a year. All for what? A white picket fence that ultimately adds no meaning whatsoever to life? I'm single and turning 32 this year. I'm beyond sick and tired of this industry. I'm constantly put down like a piece of disposable garbage; and yet every time I leave a company, management is freaking out and begging me not to leave because of the success I've brought them. I can't imagine being a dad, with the burden of responsibility that adds. I'd be having my first heart attack before age 40.
- sabalaba 10y ago
  You might enjoy moving to Silicon Valley, I can assure you good SWEs are treated much better here than whatever location you're describing. Talented engineers are highly valued and treated as such.
  - fapjacks 10y ago
    Hear, hear! Don't want to deal with it? Take off! Companies need us, not the other way around.
- blowski 10y ago
  I'm a 35 year old Dad, my son is 3 years old. As a developer, I'm extremely well paid, and my working conditions are amazing. Sure I'd like a 500% payrise and a big office of my own, but I'm not going to complain about the wonderful job I already have.
- 10y ago

fpoling 10y ago

I few years ago I met a I guy who run some small business and for few hours per week drove a buss, mostly at night shifts. He told me that he had to do that for little extra cash and to keep his bus driver skills in case the business would not work. But I got an impression that he just enjoyed the driving.

yardie 10y ago

I've met so many people who Uber/Lyft for similar reasons. They could be doing their regular job and making 2X$/hour but instead are driving make $X/hour. And I get it. It's the end of the working day and their job is done. So they do something else for a few hours, make a little money. Keep their sanity and come back to work the next morning.

pasquinelli 10y ago

I recently went from programming to janitorial and I've been really happy with it.

gerry_shaw 10y ago
Is this serious and if so can you explain why?
- flukus 10y ago
  At least when you clean up shit you're boss can tell.
Cofike 10y ago
I also am interested in this story.
dorfsmay 10y ago
I can see the attraction to janitorial work: no politics, a defined scope, knowing when you're done, not taking problem home, no reinventing and learning the new wheel every 2 years, etc... I'd miss the building something part, and the intellectual challenges, be it understanding the business logic better, or debugging complex issue. But, to be honest, unless I'm very mis-informed, the difference in renumeration would be the first issue I'd face.
- flukus 10y ago
  > But, to be honest, unless I'm very mis-informed, the difference in renumeration would be the first issue I'd face. Contract based cleaning was actually fairly lucrative not too long ago, particularly for overnight cleaning. It paid 2-3 times (maybe more) what you would make from being employed as janitorial staff. This all changed when large managed service companies started to be a thing and a local contract cleaner couldn't compete with professional salesmen. In turn it meant that well paying cleaning jobs became a thing of the past. Source: My father ran his own one or two man cleaning business. He was making much more at this in 1990 than when he retired (as an employee) in 2010.
mistermann 10y ago
I didn't much care for janitorial work, but man I'd jump at the chance to go pump gas in a full service gas station again, if I could keep my IT salary of course.
- Razengan 10y ago
  Work on your own projects from a laptop between pumping gas?
  - beisner 10y ago
    Then the gas company owns your IP.

myowncrapulence 10y ago

Bus driving is an addictive Zen like experience The movie "Paterson" addresses this exact situation. A poet who drives a bus. Very good movie I recommend anyone interested in this topic to watch it.

sn41 10y ago
Up to the age of thirty, I used to get on the bus, go to the terminal point, and come back. To clear my thoughts. I've tried this both in India and while I was a student in the US. Found it immensely beneficial. Unfortunately I live in a city which lacks public transport, so can't do it any longer.
- plasticchris 10y ago
  Reminds me of a story about Poincaré and the contributions of public transit to mathematics.
- kbart 10y ago
  Funny, I've found that the best place for me to concentrate is on a bus or train, provided there's not too much noise around. During one hour journey I can usually accomplish more work than 3-4 h in home/office.
labrador 10y ago
Thanks for the recommendation! It's a newer release by the great director Jim Jarmaush so I bet it's really good.

WhitneyLand 10y ago

It might not be lack of initiative; It might be just the old fashioned mindset that companies are a lifelong partner in your career and retirement. After all, if not ever true, it was true enough to be a successful strategy for a generation of people. Those with pension funds intact did ok. There was no final warning bell for everyone that from here on out you are 100% responsible for maintaining a skill set. It was so gradual it could have (and was by a lot of people) been missed. I think the lesson is broader that passion for writing code. With equal intelligence and resources anyone will likely be crushed by someone with more motivation. How many scientists did great things because of insane drive bordering on or crossing into obsession? To me the lesson is there is not one simplistic goal (learn coding, get a degree, etc) that will bring you success in life, monetary or otherwise. We have to be diligent through our lives because not only are the rules elusive, they're likely changing as we learn them.

icantdrive55 10y ago

My best friend in high school step father got a great job in San Francisco. He was working in management, and it wasen't stressful. He had a nice apartment in the Marina. It seemed like he had everything. I knew he was slightly unhappy, but I thought it would pass. His newly married wife wouldn't leave Brooklyn, NY. His stepson, whom was my best friend, and living with him, kept telling him she will eventually come to San Francisco. One night he came clean. 'He told us it's not your mother not comming here--don't get me wrong--I am dissapointed with her; it's I miss driving a cab! 'I sit in these fancy restaurants overlooking the Bay Area, with guys I can't relate to, and just wish I was home driving my cab. I wish I never took this job.' Two years went by, and he was still talking about that cab. The company in San Francisco was constantly throwing more money at him, but he was never happy. I lost touch with him after high school. To this day, I'm still shocked. This was in the ninties when driving a cab was more dangerious than it is today, and paid horribly. (Over the years, I learned that I'm miserable in some jobs people think are great, and visa versa. One man's fantasy is another man's hell? And that goes for relationships too.)

developer2 10y ago

>> OP's Dad certainly knows he is displaying a remarkable lack of initiative when it comes to learning new languages and it sounds like he's manufactured some excuses to satisfy the family No, OP's dad is sick and tired of working for an industry that drowns him with its stress, misery, and corporate bullshit. The reason for finding an excuse to give your family is that they are expecting you provide them with a/an (upper?) middle class lifestyle. Screw your happiness and reduced levels of stress; what matters most to them is your paycheque and what it can offer them. For some people, $20+ more per hour is not worth rotting away in a cubicle, while being treated like a replaceable nobody, always being belittled like a child at every review for "not meeting company goals", all the while being part of the very reason the company is making millions of dollars a year. All for what? A white picket fence that ultimately adds no meaning whatsoever to life? I'm single and turning 32 this year. I'm beyond sick and tired of this industry. I'm constantly put down like a piece of disposable garbage; and yet every time I leave a company, management is freaking out and begging me not to leave because of the success I've brought them. I can't imagine being a dad, with the burden of responsibility that adds. I'd be having my first heart attack before age 40.

sabalaba 10y ago
You might enjoy moving to Silicon Valley, I can assure you good SWEs are treated much better here than whatever location you're describing. Talented engineers are highly valued and treated as such.
- fapjacks 10y ago
  Hear, hear! Don't want to deal with it? Take off! Companies need us, not the other way around.
blowski 10y ago
I'm a 35 year old Dad, my son is 3 years old. As a developer, I'm extremely well paid, and my working conditions are amazing. Sure I'd like a 500% payrise and a big office of my own, but I'm not going to complain about the wonderful job I already have.
10y ago