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I'll get the dumb stuff out of the way. No, the hard fork for TheDAO did not sacrifice our principles. No it wasn't a centralized bailout. Yes, there were SO

I'll get the dumb stuff out of the way. No, the hard fork for TheDAO did not sacrifice our principles. No it wasn't a centralized bailout. Yes, there were SOME shady things that went down, but all very minor. It was a very confusing time for all. Yes, the website says "unstoppable uncensorable contracts" and we stopped one. Congratulations. Let me direct you to Ethereum Classic. You can't complain about a hard fork when you have a community that upholds the original version. Go complain there. The rest of us are moving forward and helping develop a technology that will ultimately be fully decentralized and uncensorable. In the meantime, our community respects our centralized development team that is super awesome and competent and are committed to changing the world. Best analogy I can come up with is Elon Musk trying to develop automated driving cars, and a few people tragically get killed along the way due to it. That doesnt mean automated driving cars are bad, or that development of the technology should cease. Here's a great list of upcoming projects https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/5slji5/its_all_slowly_starting_to_come_together/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/5slji5/its_all_sl...

merlincorey 10y ago
> No, the hard fork for TheDAO did not sacrifice our principles. As an observer, yes, it definitely did. It's the thing that has most turned me off of ETH.
- AroundTheBlock_ 10y ago
  Great, dont use it. Clearly, others don't share your perspective. That's the beauty of decentralized systems. No one is forcing you to use Ethereum or Bitcoin or anything. But your opinion on its usefulness as an outsider is much less meaningful.
  - merlincorey 10y ago
    Your attitude here isn't exactly endearing me, and I would imagine some third party observers as well. Your team has always been a bit combative with regards to criticism, from my experience. That said... I am actually more interested in using ethereum classic than I am ethereum, uh, central.
    - AroundTheBlock_ 10y ago
      My attitude is neutral. I'm not here to endear anyone. I have zero desire to influence you nor anyone else to purchase and/or use Ethereum. My only purpose is to clear up misconceptions and defend the reasoning behind the hard fork. And I am very supportive of those users who want to use Ethereum Classic. However, don't shit on the users who want to use the main chain.
      - dogecoinbase 10y ago
        No, the hard fork for TheDAO did not sacrifice our principles. Yes, the website says "unstoppable uncensorable contracts" and we stopped one. You literally sacrificed your principles. Now you're here trying to justify your own actions to yourself. This pointless noise you're making? You're trying to convince yourself, because you clearly know you're in the wrong. It's just as obvious from over here.
        splintercell 10y ago
        > Yes, the website says "unstoppable uncensorable contracts" and we stopped one. Let's say that Hard fork never happened, lets say if tomorrow due to a certain smart contract, 90% of the Ether holders sell off, and go join Lisk or some other Smart contract platform, would you say because 90% of the Ethereum supporters sold off their currency, therefore the smart contract has been 'stopped' and that they should remove "unstoppable uncensorable contracts" from their website?
        JumpCrisscross 10y ago
        I think an idea is f@<&led by design if it so quickly leads to an irreconcilable catastrophe. We already have mutable contracts. And we already have hard, distributed ledgers. If you're taking your contracting distributed ledger and making it optionally soft, I don't see a place for it other than for internal political purposes ("Look ma, I'm doing blockchain!"). That, admittedly, has value, but only so much.
        10y ago
koolba 10y ago
> No, the hard fork for TheDAO did not sacrifice our principles. > No it wasn't a centralized bailout. > Yes, there were SOME shady things that went down, but all very minor. It was a very confusing time for all. > Yes, the website says "unstoppable uncensorable contracts" and we stopped one. Congratulations. Let me direct you to Ethereum Classic. You can't complain about a hard fork when you have a community that upholds the original version. Go complain there. The rest of us are moving forward and helping develop a technology that will ultimately be fully decentralized and uncensorable. In the meantime, our community respects our centralized development team that is super awesome and competent and are committed to changing the world. What's to prevent a similar situation in the future and why should anyone believe that to hold? > Best analogy I can come up with is Elon Musk trying to develop automated driving cars, and a few people tragically get killed along the way due to it. That doesnt mean automated driving cars are bad, or that development of the technology should cease. In your analogy the company set up by Musk would get sued and possibly shut down. It wouldn't stop the concept itself from being developed or promoted by others and doesn't speak to the concept itself. I'm not saying Ethereum should have "given up" but sacrificing the core point of transactions not being able to be backed out is pretty damning.
- AroundTheBlock_ 10y ago
  "What's to prevent a similar situation in the future and why should anyone believe that to hold?" Ask yourself if this was a centralized hard fork ordered by up high, or as users we chose to opt in to this change. Clearly we opted in, because Ethereum Classic exists for those who so wish. Therefore, the Ethereum Foundation did not "force" me to do anything that I didn't agree to. Yes in my example Musk might have gotten sued (although really? is he at risk of that right now? I doubt it.), but a mistake early on in development should not hinder the advancement of the technology. If you are going to say smart contracts are useful, but we should abandon the Ethereum blockchain, then BY ALL MEANS please go to Ethereum Classic. You'll be welcome there with open arms. But the main Ethereum community clearly prioritizes pragmatism, as do the majority of the world. We're not idealists. We're actually trying to put out a meaningful technology to help people. So you can throw Musk in jail or let him get back to work on saving lives.
che_shirecat 10y ago
> No, the hard fork for TheDAO did not sacrifice our principles. The hard fork was inevitable and it exposed the most glaring problem with the whole thing - there's no use case for a ledger that's supposedly decentralized and immutable but is in fact subject to the decisions of a particular group, however "super awesome and competent" who have significant vested interests in the speculative value of the currency. I'm not even talking about the DoS hard fork which you can explain away as fixing a core ethereum bug. The fork that unilaterally decided to nix the ethereum of the hacker who exploited a flaw in theDAO's smart contracts, the action that was taken purely to roll back the losses of those who had their hands in the speculative ethereum cookie jar, makes ethereum as an implementation of a great concept impossible to take seriously. If code isn't law, then what is besides the whims of the ethereum community? Any sane individual would much rather take such a contract dispute to a U.S. court where at least one has an idea as to who is pulling the strings. Labeling such concerns as "dumb stuff" is simply a knee-jerk reaction to criticism that endangers your own stake in ethereum's success.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
pikzen 10y ago
>Yes, the website says "unstoppable uncensorable contracts" and we stopped one. Congratulations. Let me direct you to Ethereum Classic. "Our unregulated-free-market-dream-but-still-controlled-by-a-group-with-financial-interests-in-it cryptocurrency has two fundamentally incompatible versions, and may very well fork into a third at the whim of Ethereum's developers" wew lad

merlincorey 10y ago

> No, the hard fork for TheDAO did not sacrifice our principles. As an observer, yes, it definitely did. It's the thing that has most turned me off of ETH.

AroundTheBlock_ 10y ago
Great, dont use it. Clearly, others don't share your perspective. That's the beauty of decentralized systems. No one is forcing you to use Ethereum or Bitcoin or anything. But your opinion on its usefulness as an outsider is much less meaningful.
- merlincorey 10y ago
  Your attitude here isn't exactly endearing me, and I would imagine some third party observers as well. Your team has always been a bit combative with regards to criticism, from my experience. That said... I am actually more interested in using ethereum classic than I am ethereum, uh, central.
  - AroundTheBlock_ 10y ago
    My attitude is neutral. I'm not here to endear anyone. I have zero desire to influence you nor anyone else to purchase and/or use Ethereum. My only purpose is to clear up misconceptions and defend the reasoning behind the hard fork. And I am very supportive of those users who want to use Ethereum Classic. However, don't shit on the users who want to use the main chain.
    - dogecoinbase 10y ago
      No, the hard fork for TheDAO did not sacrifice our principles. Yes, the website says "unstoppable uncensorable contracts" and we stopped one. You literally sacrificed your principles. Now you're here trying to justify your own actions to yourself. This pointless noise you're making? You're trying to convince yourself, because you clearly know you're in the wrong. It's just as obvious from over here.
      - splintercell 10y ago
        > Yes, the website says "unstoppable uncensorable contracts" and we stopped one. Let's say that Hard fork never happened, lets say if tomorrow due to a certain smart contract, 90% of the Ether holders sell off, and go join Lisk or some other Smart contract platform, would you say because 90% of the Ethereum supporters sold off their currency, therefore the smart contract has been 'stopped' and that they should remove "unstoppable uncensorable contracts" from their website?
        JumpCrisscross 10y ago
        I think an idea is f@<&led by design if it so quickly leads to an irreconcilable catastrophe. We already have mutable contracts. And we already have hard, distributed ledgers. If you're taking your contracting distributed ledger and making it optionally soft, I don't see a place for it other than for internal political purposes ("Look ma, I'm doing blockchain!"). That, admittedly, has value, but only so much.
        10y ago

koolba 10y ago

> No, the hard fork for TheDAO did not sacrifice our principles. > No it wasn't a centralized bailout. > Yes, there were SOME shady things that went down, but all very minor. It was a very confusing time for all. > Yes, the website says "unstoppable uncensorable contracts" and we stopped one. Congratulations. Let me direct you to Ethereum Classic. You can't complain about a hard fork when you have a community that upholds the original version. Go complain there. The rest of us are moving forward and helping develop a technology that will ultimately be fully decentralized and uncensorable. In the meantime, our community respects our centralized development team that is super awesome and competent and are committed to changing the world. What's to prevent a similar situation in the future and why should anyone believe that to hold? > Best analogy I can come up with is Elon Musk trying to develop automated driving cars, and a few people tragically get killed along the way due to it. That doesnt mean automated driving cars are bad, or that development of the technology should cease. In your analogy the company set up by Musk would get sued and possibly shut down. It wouldn't stop the concept itself from being developed or promoted by others and doesn't speak to the concept itself. I'm not saying Ethereum should have "given up" but sacrificing the core point of transactions not being able to be backed out is pretty damning.

AroundTheBlock_ 10y ago
"What's to prevent a similar situation in the future and why should anyone believe that to hold?" Ask yourself if this was a centralized hard fork ordered by up high, or as users we chose to opt in to this change. Clearly we opted in, because Ethereum Classic exists for those who so wish. Therefore, the Ethereum Foundation did not "force" me to do anything that I didn't agree to. Yes in my example Musk might have gotten sued (although really? is he at risk of that right now? I doubt it.), but a mistake early on in development should not hinder the advancement of the technology. If you are going to say smart contracts are useful, but we should abandon the Ethereum blockchain, then BY ALL MEANS please go to Ethereum Classic. You'll be welcome there with open arms. But the main Ethereum community clearly prioritizes pragmatism, as do the majority of the world. We're not idealists. We're actually trying to put out a meaningful technology to help people. So you can throw Musk in jail or let him get back to work on saving lives.

che_shirecat 10y ago

> No, the hard fork for TheDAO did not sacrifice our principles. The hard fork was inevitable and it exposed the most glaring problem with the whole thing - there's no use case for a ledger that's supposedly decentralized and immutable but is in fact subject to the decisions of a particular group, however "super awesome and competent" who have significant vested interests in the speculative value of the currency. I'm not even talking about the DoS hard fork which you can explain away as fixing a core ethereum bug. The fork that unilaterally decided to nix the ethereum of the hacker who exploited a flaw in theDAO's smart contracts, the action that was taken purely to roll back the losses of those who had their hands in the speculative ethereum cookie jar, makes ethereum as an implementation of a great concept impossible to take seriously. If code isn't law, then what is besides the whims of the ethereum community? Any sane individual would much rather take such a contract dispute to a U.S. court where at least one has an idea as to who is pulling the strings. Labeling such concerns as "dumb stuff" is simply a knee-jerk reaction to criticism that endangers your own stake in ethereum's success.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

pikzen 10y ago

>Yes, the website says "unstoppable uncensorable contracts" and we stopped one. Congratulations. Let me direct you to Ethereum Classic. "Our unregulated-free-market-dream-but-still-controlled-by-a-group-with-financial-interests-in-it cryptocurrency has two fundamentally incompatible versions, and may very well fork into a third at the whim of Ethereum's developers" wew lad