3 ms·

>I self-identify as a neoliberal (fiscally conservative); is that part of the left? No. The left believes in the workers controlling the means of production an

by ue_ 10y ago

>I self-identify as a neoliberal (fiscally conservative); is that part of the left? No. The left believes in the workers controlling the means of production and stopping capitalists from exploiting labour by appropriating value that they have no right to. I am for the concept of open borders, though. I wish for the destruction of nations, and like Marx, I am only in favour of 'globalisation' for this purpose - to break down and dissolve those old traditions and natonalities. The dialectic of immigratation asks to investigate the reason why people immigrate - to move from one state of exploitation (or even a feudal way of living) into a slightly better one (such as you would find in the US). They also immigrate beacuse of war, moved on in no small part by the capitalism of the military industrial complex. Rather than selfishly trying to 'fix' immigration by building walls, perhaps we should destroy the reason why people want to immigrate. It's unfortunate that world leaders have such little foresight to do this.

Oxitendwe 10y ago
It's really not as complicated as you make it out to be. Everyone has a right to put the interests of themselves and their group first and foremost. Given that, the "solution" to immigration is to just not bother with it when it isn't in your interests. The reason the left wants immigration is because they overwhelmingly vote left. The reason the right doesn't is because they don't want to lose their cultural and national identity. Nowhere along the line does anybody care about why people want to be here - it's not their concern.
- ue_ 10y ago
  >The reason the left wants immigration is because they overwhelmingly vote left. This is extermely narrow-sighted and very uncharitable, and fails to explain the radical left's stance on immigration, given that very few immigrants vote for, say, the Communist party. >Nowhere along the line does anybody care about why people want to be here - it's not their concern. And that's what I'm saying the problem is. People have very little foresight such that instead of trying to implement a much more effective solution to this perceived threat to "cultural and national identity" they just say "let's build a wall". It does not fix the material conditions that lead to immigration. The wall crumbles. People are still getting in, because they want to get in. If those people really cared about their culture so much, they would be willing to help address the cause of immigration. At the very least, it's a shoddy hack designed to plug a big hole. And this is where we are now; 'the right' wants to use a poorly thought out hack out of narrow self-interest. Because apparently the only humans who matter are those on this side of the line in the sand.
  - Oxitendwe 10y ago
    The "material conditions" that lead to illegal immigration in the US are lax enforcement of immigration and labor laws. If we had enforced our laws from the beginning, it would not be a problem. The solution then, is to enforce the laws we have, and remove their incentive to be here, not to go over there and make their country better. We have our own country to make great (again!). >Because apparently the only humans who matter are those on this side of the line in the sand. Everyone has a right to act in their best interests. Charity is never obligatory.
    - ue_ 10y ago
      >The "material conditions" that lead to illegal immigration in the US are lax enforcement of immigration and labor laws. These are material conditions, but they do not cover all immigration, so they are insufficient. The bigger material conditions are namely that people want to live better lives, and they think that they can do so in "better" countries like the US. >and remove their incentive to be here This is what I am talking about. You must fix the material conditions, which means that you must either (i) make your own country worse or (ii) make others better. Why not do the second? >We have our own country to make great (again!). America has always been founded on capitalist exploitation. It never was 'great'. >Everyone has a right to act in their best interests. Sure, and it's in your best interest to fix the material conditions for immigration if you don't like immigration. >Charity is never obligatory. That's true, but it seems very selfish to not care about the fate of others, simply beacuse they were born somewhere else.

by ue_ 10y ago

Oxitendwe 10y ago

It's really not as complicated as you make it out to be. Everyone has a right to put the interests of themselves and their group first and foremost. Given that, the "solution" to immigration is to just not bother with it when it isn't in your interests. The reason the left wants immigration is because they overwhelmingly vote left. The reason the right doesn't is because they don't want to lose their cultural and national identity. Nowhere along the line does anybody care about why people want to be here - it's not their concern.

ue_ 10y ago
>The reason the left wants immigration is because they overwhelmingly vote left. This is extermely narrow-sighted and very uncharitable, and fails to explain the radical left's stance on immigration, given that very few immigrants vote for, say, the Communist party. >Nowhere along the line does anybody care about why people want to be here - it's not their concern. And that's what I'm saying the problem is. People have very little foresight such that instead of trying to implement a much more effective solution to this perceived threat to "cultural and national identity" they just say "let's build a wall". It does not fix the material conditions that lead to immigration. The wall crumbles. People are still getting in, because they want to get in. If those people really cared about their culture so much, they would be willing to help address the cause of immigration. At the very least, it's a shoddy hack designed to plug a big hole. And this is where we are now; 'the right' wants to use a poorly thought out hack out of narrow self-interest. Because apparently the only humans who matter are those on this side of the line in the sand.
- Oxitendwe 10y ago
  The "material conditions" that lead to illegal immigration in the US are lax enforcement of immigration and labor laws. If we had enforced our laws from the beginning, it would not be a problem. The solution then, is to enforce the laws we have, and remove their incentive to be here, not to go over there and make their country better. We have our own country to make great (again!). >Because apparently the only humans who matter are those on this side of the line in the sand. Everyone has a right to act in their best interests. Charity is never obligatory.
  - ue_ 10y ago
    >The "material conditions" that lead to illegal immigration in the US are lax enforcement of immigration and labor laws. These are material conditions, but they do not cover all immigration, so they are insufficient. The bigger material conditions are namely that people want to live better lives, and they think that they can do so in "better" countries like the US. >and remove their incentive to be here This is what I am talking about. You must fix the material conditions, which means that you must either (i) make your own country worse or (ii) make others better. Why not do the second? >We have our own country to make great (again!). America has always been founded on capitalist exploitation. It never was 'great'. >Everyone has a right to act in their best interests. Sure, and it's in your best interest to fix the material conditions for immigration if you don't like immigration. >Charity is never obligatory. That's true, but it seems very selfish to not care about the fate of others, simply beacuse they were born somewhere else.