4 ms·
> One of the basic premises of anti-immigrant policies is that you can somehow influence the ratio of "useful" vs "not-useful" immigrants. This is exactly wha
by gwern 10y ago
> One of the basic premises of anti-immigrant policies is that you can somehow influence the ratio of "useful" vs "not-useful" immigrants.
This is exactly what the study shows is not just possible but easy in screening by nationality. Think about US immigration statistics by country (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States#Origin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_Stat...): you'll see lots of Central and South American countries. Now take a look at what the study finds (http://nfap.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Immigrants-and-Billion-Dollar-Startups.NFAP-Policy-Brief.March-2016.pdf http://nfap.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Immigrants-and-Bi...):
"The leading country of origin for the immigrant founders of billion dollar companies was India with 14 entrepreneurs, followed by Canada and the United Kingdom with 8, Israel (7), Germany (4), China (3), France (2), Ireland (2) and 12 other countries with one entrepreneur.2
India: 14
Canada: 8
United Kingdom: 8
Israel: 7
Germany: 4
China: 3
France: 3
Ireland: 2
Armenia: 1
Azerbaijan: 1
Argentina: 1
Egypt: 1
Holland: 1
Iraq: 1
Norway: 1
Russia: 1
Singapore: 1
South Africa: 1
South Korea: 1
Uzbekistan: 1"
Does this look remotely like current US immigration? It does not. (Hey, you know what countries I don't see on that startup founder list? Mexico, Philippines, Vietnam, El Salvador, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Guatemala, Jamaica, Colombia, Haiti, Honduras, Peru, Ecuador...) If you were building a model to predict startup founding by nationality and personal details like IQ or ethnicity (no prizes for guessing what ethnicity that 1 South Africa founder is, or what religion that 1 Iraqi founder is), and designing immigration policy around that, it would look nothing like what has gone on for decades.
Using startup founders as an argument for the status quo of illegal immigration is a deeply dishonest bait-and-switch piece of equivocation (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_division https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_division ) and it makes my teeth grind every time I see someone go 'did you know 50% of startup founders/CEOs/scientists are immigrants?' Justify it on its own merits, don't pretend that Indian brahmins and Israeli Jews' accomplishments have anything to do with not building a wall along the Mexican border!
This is a very similar fallacy as the 'US has only 5% of the world population, therefore it only has 1 out of 20 of the best researchers/programmers/entrepreneurs' (most recently seen on Paul Graham's Twitter). This is not remotely the case because of differing health & political & economic & scientific development & mean IQ, and the further out on the tail you go (such as 'best programmers in the world') the more lopsided the global distribution becomes - much the same way that women make up 50% of the population but do not make up 50% of people over 7 feet tall or the NBA.
- atomi 10y agoThere are a lot of other businesses outside the startup bubble. > Immigrants are found to have higher business ownership and formation rates than non-immigrants. https://www.sba.gov/content/immigrant-entrepreneurs-and-small-business-owners-and-their-access-financial-capital https://www.sba.gov/content/immigrant-entrepreneurs-and-smal... And let's go ahead and ignore just how unfair Manifest Destiny was to begin with and even more recently Mexican Repatriation.
- gwern 10y agoYour reference is irrelevant because it doesn't break down by country and you are pulling exactly the equivocation BS I just demonstrated OP was doing. Please reread my comment if you don't understand why you cannot justify current immigration policy by pointing at immigration averages or totals without reference to country.
- atomi 10y agoThe statistic from SBA includes _ALL_ immigrants, including those you seem to despise.
- alehul 10y agoI think the argument he was posing was that those statistics are carried by immigrants who won't be affected by the policies in discussion. When you say it includes all immigrants, do you mean it includes the groups that would be affected when isolated from the rest, or overall?
- dandelany 10y ago> Hey, you know what countries I don't see on that startup founder list? Mexico, ... Looking at >$1B businesses only, as this story does, presents a rather skewed perspective. Per Fiscal Policy Institute "there are nonetheless more small business owners from Mexico than from any other single country... Immigrants born in Mexico make up 12 percent of immigrant small business owners, followed by immigrants born in India, Korea, Cuba, China, and Vietnam." http://fiscalpolicy.org/immigrant-small-business-owners-FPI-20120614.pdf http://fiscalpolicy.org/immigrant-small-business-owners-FPI-...