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Primer (film)
- phoboslab 16y agoPrimer is one of my all time favorite movies. I had goose bumps watching it the first time. The linked timeline from the article is actually pretty "easy" to read and really helped me understand what I've just seen. Just watch the movie beforehand :) http://neuwanstein.fw.hu/primer_timeline.html http://neuwanstein.fw.hu/primer_timeline.html Edit: The entire movie is officially(?) available on Google Video, though the quality is not that good. You should find yourself a better copy... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3909854615539675694# http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3909854615539675694#
- ilkhd2 16y agoAlas, most of people saw Avatar, and believe that it was the best movie in the history of genre..
- kevinelliott 16y agoI haven't seen Avatar yet. I'm likely one of the 7 who hasn't.
- mattmanser 16y agoIt was totally worth seeing in 3D and on big screen just for the effects. Story's lame though.
- jokermatt999 16y agoExactly. I don't get all the Avatar hate. The story was bad, but the cinematic experience was excellent. It was a summer blockbuster style movie. I didn't go into it expecting a plot, I went into it expecting action, explosions, and shiny things. It delivered superbly on those things. Don't judge Avatar against hard sci-fi, judge it against something like Star Wars or the new Star Trek movie. Its purpose was to entertain, not to leave you thinking about it for days. Personally, I find nothing wrong with that. I generally prefer movies like Primer, but sometimes it's nice to kick back with a bucket of popcorn and marvel at the pretty lights.
- SandB0x 16y agoI found it impossible to relate to or care about any of the characters. If you haven't seen it, find the incredible review of the Phantom Menace on YouTube by Red Letter Media. The most insightful part is where he asks people to describe the nature of the characters in both trilogies. For the original movies, people instantly recall, for example the "dashing...arrogant..scoundrel" Han Solo. For the newer films, nothing. What was princess Amidala like? Nobody cares. Avatar suffered from this, and no amount of shiny graphics could ever bring me to care. With great characters you can forgive all kinds of things (eg Battlestar Galactica.)
- moultano 16y agoI think people could do a pretty good job of that for Avatar. The characters were nothing if not archetypical.
- rbanffy 16y agoI wouldn't call it lame. It's predictable, precisely because it's a fairly standard hero story, the kind we keep telling each other since we have learned to tell stories. Stories like these are part of what makes us human.
- iamwil 16y agoI guess I'm two of 7.
- X-Istence 16y agoPlease, don't read the Wikipedia article before you go out and rent or buy this movie. The movie is absolutely fantastic. I have seen it 17 to 18 times, and even-though people have attempted to explain everything that is going on to me I still have a hard time wrapping my mind around it. Awesome for the hacker in you!
- almost 16y agoSeconded, watch the movie! Don't read too much about it first. Primer is totally awesome, seriously confusing though it is :)
- camperman 16y agoI'm on my tenth time and I'm just starting to figure out a few of the nuances in only some of the scenes. The timeline has helped but one day I will do an animation that shows it more intuitively it that's possible.
- sandGorgon 16y agoupvoted - especially the large image (one of the links on Wikipedia) that draws a graph of the "events".
- dchs 16y agoDamn! Too late!
- acdha 16y agoJust got around to watching it on Netflix a few weeks ago - the first movie in awhile which has kept us up talking about for nearly as long as it takes to watch. Highly recommended.
- micheljansen 16y agoExactly. I'm surprised this link got upvoted this much. Everyone should have already seen this movie ;)
- ciaranbradley 16y agoI'm ashamed to say I haven't seen this movie yet, I must order the DVD this weekend, (now that I've been reminded for the umpteenth time). On a side note, my biggest annoyance with Wikipedia is manifest in articles about movies. For some reason, they allow an editorial policy of essentially writing out a scene by scene account of a movie.
- maushu 16y agoRequired link to related xkcd strip: http://xkcd.com/657/ http://xkcd.com/657/
- matt1 16y agoShameless self-promotion: my timeline app, Preceden, which lets you make multi-layered timelines, would be perfect for representing timelines like this (and the one in Primer!). Check it out: http://www.preceden.com http://www.preceden.com
- timelinex 16y agoWow, cool I am going to do a timeline app for london start weekend. Planning to start prototype this weekend. Just some feedback lower the barrier to entry. From the initial look of it, it seems like it would have a steep learning curve. Your stats look great though. Spend $60 and get $145 back, you are on to something.
- matt1 16y agoThanks for the feedback. The $5/day the led to that $60 didn't result in any paying customers, so I stopped. Blog reviews and word of mouth are much more effective. As far as usability goes, it should be pretty easy to use. There are advanced features, but for a simple timeline, you should be off and running in minutes. Hope you like it.
- mistermann 16y agolol, I was trying to find that, hilarious!
- gorog 16y agoIf you like films like Primer you will like Triangle. I clearly want to watch it again to understand every time loop. Plus there's Melissa George in the lead role, which doesn't hurt. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1187064/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1187064/ If you're broke, it's available on Bittorrent (I am broke). Otherwise you won't regret your purchase.
- fierarul 16y agoTriangle was ok, but it has another feel to the movie. It's a bit of a horror with some mystical explanation to it. But Primer is pure mind-bending sci-fi. You could feel the atmosphere of the guys inventing something like few other movies. Actually - this is how I think a startup should feel and look like: the way the movie portrays it at the beginning, while the guys are still figuring things out.
- roc 16y agoAgreed. TRIANGLE was a pleasant surprise --far better than the average for that genre-- but not 'hard' sci-fi. Another surprisingly good lower-budget/-attention sci-fi film is PANDORUM.
- bd 16y agoIf you liked Primer, check also Timecrimes: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0480669/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0480669/
- jganetsk 16y agoI prefer Timecrimes to Primer... it doesn't try to confuse the viewer. SPOILER ALERT. Also, single timeline based time travel is just plain better than multiple timeline based time travel. There are just way too many problems that having multiple timelines introduces. I don't think you can ever tie up all lose ends with multiple timelines... someone can always just build a time machine later and fork the past. Maybe Primer addresses this with the limitations of their devices.
- jamesbritt 16y agoI tried watching Timecrimes, but just couldn't make it through. Found it to be horrible. Maybe there were some interesting ideas, but it just felt so clunky and amateurish.
- surki 16y agoOn a tangential note, Timecrimes (Spanish) is another good movie I enjoyed watching - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Cronocr%C3%ADmenes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Cronocr%C3%ADmenes
- joshsharp 16y agoAgree, Timecrimes is very similar and good value.
- foxtrot 16y agoIts a tough watch the first time, I was left scratching my head!
- retube 16y agoYeah a great flick. Only cost $7k dollars to make or something. Needs to be watched MANY times to figure it out, but the great thing is it seems to all hold together.
- seiha 16y agoIt's available for instant playback on Netflix if anyone was wondering.
- timmaah 16y agoBut only through the end of the month (Monday)
- happyrichpinoy 16y agothis will help make it easier to understand the movie -> http://www.nobleworld.biz/images/Gendler.pdf http://www.nobleworld.biz/images/Gendler.pdf
- reduxredacted 16y agoSet time aside to watch it twice. It's only 77 minutes long, and I believe that's a plus. I saw this for the first time with a few friends and when it was over, nobody protested when I started it over immediately. I've watched this movie several times and I pick up on new things almost every time.
- agentultra 16y agoIt's a great film and the way it was made is very inspiring. Makes me think about picking up that dusty hd cam sometimes. Either way, a must see.
- micheljansen 16y agoThe funniest thing is that people have actually tried to graph all the different timelines. Some examples: * http://i.imgur.com/kqja1.jpg * http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/PrimerTimeline.gif
- olliesaunders 16y agoWhy is that funny?
- aarongough 16y agoI watched this movie several years ago, and thinking about it still messes with my brain. Even though I wouldn't watch it again, I still recommend you go and see it if you haven't already!
- rick_2047 16y agoI like to maintain my take on time travel as described by Sheldon in Big Bang theory "Sheldon: It occurs to me that if I ever did invent a time machine, I will just go into the past and give it to myself. Thus eliminating the need to invent it in first place. That really takes the pressure off". I would like to hear what you guys think of time travel, after all it has be one of the favourite subject of speculative science fiction.
- rbanffy 16y agoThe whole universe only needs one well maintained time machine. I like the clause in their roommate agreement - if any of them ever invents a time machine, the first stop will be their meeting on the roommate agreement when they are discussing it.
- jokermatt999 16y agoSome spoilers, beware. Honestly, I'm rarely a fan of time travel stories. They tend to be full of plot holes and half-baked logic. Since everything is theoretical, it seems like many writers just pull whatever rules they feel like out of a hat, and use it as a sort of deus ex machina. Very rarely is it used well in my opinion. Primer is one of the rare exceptions because it's well structured and thought out (maddeningly so), but overall I tend to skip such things. Also, it could be noted that Primer being about time travel could be considered a spoiler. I didn't know what it was about until it was actually revealed in the movie, and I was kind of happy having it that way.
- nuncanada 16y agoJust not possible... That's not fun. Let me just clarify a little bit. Traveling to the past is not possible. "Traveling" to the future is already known how to. At least some fiction make a coherent history for how time travel works, like Primer or Asimov's book 'The End of Eternity'... Unlike for example Donnie Darko, a movie that i love, but the ending....
- eru 16y agoWasn't Primer available free to view on Google Video?
- pkrumins 16y agoIt is! http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3909854615539675694 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3909854615539675694
- glaze 16y agoYou can also watch it on voddler for free.
- dublinclontarf 16y agoI like how this movie has cost $7000 and brought in nearly $500,000.
- Alexo 16y agoI just wanted to clarify that it's very misleading to say that this film cost $7000. It cost $7000 and several years of Shane's life, as well as a torrent of favours from his friends, family and others. Why is this an important distinction? Because you can't calculate or quote business investment and return while discarding the cost of people working for several years on a project for free. Saying that Primer cost Shane Carruth $7000 to make is like saying that The Harry Potter Book Series cost J K Rowling 19 ink cartridges. It's important to appreciate what Shane achieved with such few resources though, and it's interesting to note also that he was a software engineer before making his way into filmmaking.
- hugothefrog 16y agoAnother movie similar to this (I think, having not seen the movie, but from reading the discussions) is Momento: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_%28film%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_%28film%29 IMO it stays with you a long time after you've watched it..
- artlogic 16y agoI have to say I felt that Memento was only good for a single watching. This may be an oversimplification, but if you reorganized the movie with all the scenes in reverse it would just be a mediocre movie about a guy who can't remember anything and the people he interacts with. I guess I just felt it was gimmicky. Primer, on the other hand doesn't use a single editing gimmick or plot twist, but rather does a deep drive in the mind bending situations that can occur when time travel becomes possible.
- hugothefrog 16y agoThanks for the comparison :) I can't say I've watched Momento more than once. I guess that says something in itself. I'll definitely be getting a copy of Primer now!
- bendauphinee 16y agoPrimer was a fantastic movie. Total mindf*, but then that is what made the rewatch worth it.
- thegyppo 16y agoA friend was telling me about this last night too, strange coincidence!
- forinti 16y agoNot really, he read about it today and told you about it last night.
- petewarden 16y agoI discovered this through a fantastic list of 'mindfuck movies': http://www.themorningnews.org/archives/reviews/mindfuck_movies.php http://www.themorningnews.org/archives/reviews/mindfuck_movi... It's definitely the most complex of the bunch, but most of them were great finds. Cube was another low-budget gem, and on the other end of the spectrum there's The Game with Michael Douglas.
- Jun8 16y agoThanks for this awesome list, unfortunately it seems I've watched most of them. I especially recommend La Jetee (the Hollywood remake, Twelve Monkeys is also good) and Solaris. I started watching Primer but gave up after 10 minutes or so, maybe the effects of watching it late after you put your child to sleep.
- trafficlight 16y agoGive it another shot. It's not an action flick, you need to give it more than 10 minutes.
- bemmu 16y agoThanks for sharing that movie list, we just had a wonderful time watching Mulholland Dr. and it has been the topic of conversation whole day.
- sandaru1 16y agospeaking of (relatively) low budget films, "The Man from Earth" is awesome (it's low budget relative to Hollywood, not relative to Primer; $200,000) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_from_Earth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_from_Earth
- oz 16y agoI watched it earlier this year. Awesome.
- th 16y agoA word of warning: this movie is entirely dialogue. That being said, it's a great movie.
- 83457 16y agoTwo more movies for the instance queue. Thanks
- pingou 16y agoI loved Primer. But The man from Earth was just boring, I don't get why so many people liked it. Bad actors, the hero claims are either dull or ridiculous (I laughed a lot when he pretended to be J.), and most important of all, not surprising. I knew what the movie was about before I saw it, and if it can't show me more than I can imagine myself, it just sucks. I'll be happy to get some downvotes so that some of you could save 2 hours by not viewing this movie.
- isleyaardvark 16y agoThe actors themselves have done good work, but they did the best they could with the writing. I was annoyed by the historical inaccuracies, but mainly it came off as though it was written by a college freshman.
- staunch 16y agoIf you liked Star Trek: TOS, or perhaps any Star Trek, you should not listen to this man. Watch the movie at least once. Although heavily flawed and not particularly novel (just like Star Trek) it will strike a chord with some people. It did with me.
- trafficlight 16y agoThe best thing about Primer is that it felt completely real. I felt like I could go out to my garage and build something amazing.
- ivankirigin 16y agoDo NOT read this if you haven't seen the movie. Don't learn anything about it. Just watch it. I guarantee you'll have a better time.
- pavel_lishin 16y agoAnd then watch it again. And again.
- mattheww 16y agoBad news guys. Carroll, Farhi, and Guth along with 't Hooft already looked into this in the 1990s. The only way time travel is possible is if there is already a time machine in the universe. If there isn't one already, it's impossible to create one in an open universe, and in a closed universe, it's not possible to create one and then use it before the universe ends. The proofs are in 2+1 dimensions, but they're generally believed to hold in 3+1. http://preposterousuniverse.com/research/#ctcs http://preposterousuniverse.com/research/#ctcs for a brief summary with references by Carroll.
- Panoramix 16y agoAs I understood it, this pertains to a specific implementation of a time machine i.e., the Gott time machine. The jury is still out on other implementations, though of course everything seems to point towards them being impossible.
- mattheww 16y agoYou're right, but what other implementations have proven they can actually produce a closed time-like curve?
- Panoramix 16y agoWell, you have wormholes (but they require exotic matter) and anything with singularities in it; there is the Gödel solution of a "rotating Universe" (which could be true for a "parallel" universe), the van Stockum's solution and so on. I guess until closed time-like curves are proven to be unphysical (which seems likely), physicists will keep coming up with possible solutions to Einstein's equations which allow for CTCs (and refuting them). And who knows, maybe one of them can be implemented by humans. On the other hand, it would be very interesting to know what is the mechanism by which the Universe protects itself against CTCs.
- ibejoeb 16y agoI can't say it's my favorite, but I like it and respect it. I think I like it more knowing how it was done. It's hard to characterize it without sounding negative, but these guys were practically neophytes. The budget was tiny, and the actors are not conservatory trained or anything. It's shot very nicely, and it mostly feels quite natural. It was bootstrapped to success. In that way, it's a good spiritual match for the HN community. Criticisms: it's twisted beyond comprehension, and it's jargony almost to a fault. I find it tough to get some people to sit through it.
- cj 16y agoFYI - you can stream this movie from netflix on demand. (though the movie has only 1.5/5 stars, interestingly enough.
- bitwize 16y ago"What's that?" "It's a time machine." "Does it work?" "Heck, yeah, it does. You don't even know."
- brandonkm 16y ago>After principal photography, Carruth took two years to fully post-produce Primer. He has since said that this experience was so arduous that he almost abandoned the film on several occasions. Wow. This particular fact really stood out to me. I'm glad he chose to be resilient and finish the project. Theres a lot of parallels founders can draw upon from the making of this film (budget, style, technique, etc.).
- MisterWebz 16y agoThe Machinist is worth watching too.
- mcantor 16y agoI was completely taken off-guard by the time travel humor: "Are you hungry? I haven't eaten since later this afternoon."
- glaze 16y agoI'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Pi in this thread yet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi_(film) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi_(film) It's a low-budget philosophical/mathematical/surrealistic geek film.
- Indyan 16y agoJust watched the movie for the first time and understood pretty much nothing. Went through the Wikipedia summary and still I don't understand a lot of things. Will take another crack at it tommorow morning.